He destroyed the last remaining forest that Durotar could hold, right, but we know that the CC really appeared once and defacto only said: “Nop, was already 10.000 years ago a desert, it fits” (Polemically expressed).
It seems like a weird feedback loop of “make Thrall retroactively worse to make Garrosh angry so he can then become even worse” but then when both characters are removed from the story, the faction’s left with “well now what?”
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I don’t know if it really makes the Horde look unsympathetic when druids say “Emerald Dream” says no, and rather let the people and life die there than help (although they could).
Thrall, interestingly, was never held accountable by the narrative for his failures and aggression. 
Go ahead and bump him off then. Seeing him get reintroduced just annoyed me.
I’m not sure at this point which is crueler, to bump him off or to let his sad existence continue to drag on.
Starting a war plays into the antagonist trope consistently used against the bloodthirsty savages. Yes - it’s bad.
The Alliance had at least (your words not mine) as many losses tossed on it as the Horde during BfA, but you won’t list them (even though I said I was open to being corrected). I call shenanigans. Shenanigans has been invoked. Your argument boils down to saying “You’re wrong, but I won’t tell you why.”
Strawman alert (and we’ll just ignore the contradiction inherent from you suggesting the writing was just as anti-Alliance as Horde). Just because the Horde was struck down repeatedly doesn’t mean that everything should simply be reversed. Just maybe that if there was some level of “equality” people wouldn’t say it was written as biased against the Horde and Forsaken.
Except we don’t have teleportation, portals, etc. We see refugees overrunning Stormwind. We get stories of heroism saving folks. Ultimately, we don’t know the numbers. We have no idea. So suggesting 20-30% is akin to me suggesting 90% were saved. Neither of us have any support for those numbers. But they did walk back the concept of every civilian in Teldrassil dying.
No, I don’t argue about it because I don’t want a “who has it worse” argument, but that would have ended in it, I even explained why I don’t want it.
To me, reading something like “Azeroth’s blueprint says this place is required to be awful” is as close as you can get to an in-game Word of God statement of “sucks to suck” for anyone living there. How is someone supposed to argue against a grand design of a planet? It’s just another paper on the pile for reasons why the horde races are idiots for staying there, which seems unnecessary given everything else the game has already shown.
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One could argue they never really had much of a positive relationship with the NEs because of the Grom fiasco, but regardless. I mean Durotar (not in universe, but in terms of how its written) has fluctuated quite a bit over the years. It went from something that could maintain small forests, to a arid wasteland that was not conducive to arable land, to a super fertile territory that for some reason was NEVER settled around the same time Blizz started their “Purity Test” the Alliance campaign. Its always been in flux. Which is why even now you only really see Pig Farms, or why Thrall ran off to Outlands Nagrand to build his farm I suppose.
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Except to say you can show at least (meaning equal to or more) anti-Alliance portrayal in BfA, but won’t play the “who got it worse” game. So, I’m wrong, and… that’s it. Sorry, but that doesn’t work unless I’m allowed to say “NO, YOU’RE WRONG TIMES INFINITY.”
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Posting this again in support of your last point.
http^s://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showpost.php?p=1624795&postcount=146
@ Droite
Deserts can support small forests too - Durotar once having a forest doesn’t mean that it wasn’t at the time a desert, nor did Proudmoore’s actions create a desert. As for it not being conducive to arable land, such was the opinion of some NPCs, before it wasn’t. Garrosh complained about it, then he farmed it.
I’m also not sure why people object to pig farms. Are pigs not food? Further - Garrosh’s short story does establish that they are in fact watering crops.
I feel like this brushes up against the same issue Kyalin mentioned earlier, though; “Fix our stuff and we won’t raid you.”
You can’t really force the Cenarion Circle to do something they don’t want to do. The problem has no good answer as long as it requires that the place remains bad. Either the night elf druids say no, the tauren druids say no, or the tauren druids are just inept and can’t do it anyway. Or the blueprint says that Durotar is a load-bearing desert and can’t be touched.
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It starts already, you insist so much on your points that no matter what I would write, no matter what…you wouldn’t believe it anyway, you think you are absolutely right and it’s all against the horde…it’s bias. so why discussing? Or arguing? Sorry, i don´t see the point here.
The interesting thing is that the Hordedruids also refused.
… I don’t know about you all, but I love the desert that I live in - which again, doesn’t require a cabal of druids to make livable, or to farm.
I mean, I’m surprised no one addressed this:
SAURFANG DOESN’T EAT PORK!!!
How DARE Thrall not address his peculiar dining habits, which are a direct result of him being a combat vet with PTSD? 
I don’t know why but I had a sudden mental image of your character wearing a ticker tape turban + toga combo.
And now I’m trying to say “ticker tape turban toga” 5 times fast and I’m screwing up hard.
Points at ocean - which Garrosh also set up fishermen to fish.
There’s also that.
@ Sarm
You’d probably get a little warmer if you went for the old ASCPA Kachina that they never should have retired.
I didn’t even insist on my points being true. I asked you to provide evidence of some sort to support the claim that somehow what I said was wrong. Your response was “No, but you’re wrong.”
You’re absolutely correct that I’m biased. I’m exceedingly biased against the tactics you’ve tried to use to put forth your argument. Just saying, “No, you’re wrong, but I don’t want to provide any information to rebut your facts” and trying to use a strawman argument shows that you don’t really have much to stand on logically.
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We are talking about an area of land that apparently the NEs couldn’t even fix. It also remains very unclear how hospitable Durotar actually is, but I would wager “it can be made hospitable enough to survive, but not thrive, with an absolutely absurd amount of work” … which generally is the rule of thumb for Horde races. They aren’t allowed avenues for prosperity. Survival alone is all they should expect.
The general idea is that these are ruthlessly hard lands to make a living, that must not make a ruthless or hard people as a result. And now the Kalimdor Horde is trying to support 5 different communities in some of the most destitute land on Azeroth. My god … they’re doomed unless they start doing some pretty extreme terraforming. The Kali Horde especially are not going to have the luxury of respecting the natural environment, they are going to have to fundamentally change it to fit their needs if they ever want to be able to move beyond “just surviving”. They may very well need to make a Throne of the Elements.
Zones like Stonetalon, Desolace, and major parts of Feralas could help … but god Southern Kalimdor is a festering mess for the most part. Its mostly Arid Wastelands, Fetid Swamps, or Harsh Deserts.
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