How can we redeem/rebuild the Horde?

And then in the expansion after that, the Illidari are taken over by a sketchy new leader (probably Kain) and they blow up an Alliance capital…

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Looting Zandalar would be the most recent example. Very reminiscent of the Conquistadores.

Colonizing means to send people to settle particular place, knowing people are already living there, so give me a example of COLONIZING, not looting, besides the Wildhammer Dwarf example Droit gave

I mean, you have quests in specifically Kaz Modan to continue to push the Icemane trolls further and further off their native lands

You have the Bael’Dun digsite which is the clearest example of cruel colonialist attitudes in-game.

You have the IF dwarves trying to kick out the Frostwolves and set up their own colony (who inhabited AV when it was just an inhospitable empty valley)

Stromgarde was literally formed by a noble family who adopted a new surname out of pride for how many trolls they slaughtered to carve out their home (Really, every Alliance/Bloodelf/Forsaken settlement in the EK that isn’t in extreme western Tirisfal is guilty of this to one level or another, but the Stromgarde nobility were especially proud of it)

This is not to say the Horde is innocent of this (god no).

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Orcs when seeing an Ancient of Lore, with geneasaur PTSD:

https://64.media.tumblr.com/243d862ad23bd43ab28210bfab05502e/tumblr_mh1qz3ylaW1s3eeneo3_1280.jpg

All land is troll land, if we want to be technical here. :stuck_out_tongue:

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It’s actually elemental land if we’re being super technical :gift_heart:

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They’re not ~mortal races~.

They were still on Azeroth first and they’re sentient

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This Land is Troll Land,
This Land is Troll Land,
From the Eternal Well
to the Echo Isles.
This Land is Troll Land,
This Land is Troll Land,
This Land
Was Meant for
Trolls, You See.

Forget those Night Elves,
Those Mutant Night Elves,
Who Drank Some Titan Blood
And Turned Purple,
This Land Was Meant
For Trolls, You See.

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yelling!!!

The Horde Goblins under Gallywix were also looting Zandalar even before the Battle of Dazar’alor.

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Then it is Vyrkul/Humanland, both existed before trolls and tauren.

The first mention of humans comes before trolls.

Nah, Chronicles put Troll Empire at 16000 years ago, meaning early Troll tribes are before 16000 years ago, while Vrykul (Curse of Flesh-ified mortal beings) are 15000, as per Chronicles, with nothing indicating Curse of Flesh among Titanforged predates Troll Empires, let alone early Troll tribes.

Vyrkul are listened before “old kalimdor” is listened.

PAGE:

Page 54 Lokens Betrayal starts the curse of flesh, ages before even the trolls existed

Mentioned as eventual products of the Titanforged, but they don’t put a date, don’t know what to tell you

Only date mentioned is dragonflayers later

Page 54 Lokens Betrayal starts the curse of flesh, ages before even the trolls existed

… I was going to suggest that they could of had a couple of Alliance commanders see Mesoamerican-inspired trolls with loads of gold and go all Conquistador on Zandalar, but then I thought “The Goblins probably already beat them to it, didn’t they? Because in every Horde-Alliance war, the Bad Guys to the Alliance are the Horde, and the Bad Guys to the Horde is also the Horde. Again.”

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In Zul’aman at that time it was also grave robbers, in bc, who caused the whole thing, so would fit

Technically speaking, when you defeat Opulence as the Alliance (because everyone is Alliance for that fight) you then go and dig through the spoils for a bunch of artifacts that have no purpose but sell for a lot of money. It’s literally enacting war looting, but it’s slid in there so sneakily and never called out that most people don’t even think about it.

8.1 in general was an absolute horror show for the Horde in a way that I feel like gets glossed over a lot - there were a lot of very casual ways in which the story threw both the pride and the honor of the Horde under the bus for almost no reason other than that they could. Instances where the Horde didn’t need to be made to look worse (the Goblins come to mind in two instances here) were instead written for maximum shame, even where it made absolutely no sense.

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Not to mention, again, the cultural significance of Genn Greymane (read: British monarch) of all people being the one to lead a raiding party through Dazar’alor and personally demanding that King Rastakhan surrender, before setting his soldiers/mercenaries (Alliance players) loose.

Even Rastakhan himself hints upon the hypocrisy of the (supposedly) civilized Alliance attempting to conquer the (also supposedly) savage Horde:

You…an exile without a homeland…you dare invade dese sacred halls and demand dat I turn my kingdom over to you?

De Zandalari built an empire dat would endure for over ten-thousand years…while your barbaric ancestors scuffled in de dirt.

WE conquered this world. WE brought it glory. You…you are nothing. Merely de latest in a long line of savages seeking to undermine our greatness.

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