I mean, I get it. At least the worgen lost their home in style the first go around, beating up on the forsaken so bad the forsaken decided blighting gilneas was better than trying to continue to conquer it. I was just reacting to the implication that the darkspear had it worse.
I feel the Azerothian native races of the horde having to cede their lands to the very colonialist Alliance is a very bad move story-wise!
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So tell meâŠwho are the alliance currently colonizing? BecauseâŠyou know, the ones who beat up on the trolls and stole their land are currently a member of the horde.
With the exception of orcs and draenei, every race is a native race, do you know that?
Without Titans, there would be no Tauren or Trolls.
And without Yogg-Saron there would be no Dwarves or Gnomes or âŠ
He is our true creator. He gave us the gift of flesh.
/Sorry cult meetings are usually on Thursdays
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The Lucid Dream, the monster in your nightmares, The Beast With a Thousand Maws, glory him, the one and only
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To revisit the "relocation of the Horde to âNorthrendâ discussion. People do get that generally speaking there is no real future for the Horde on that continent right? Groups like the Forsaken could hypothetically make use of resources like the Scourge if they were able to start recovering the minds from that mass to aid with their population needs, but Northrend is very damaged environmentally.
Even despite the harsh natural conditions, the local remaining populations, the Scourge, and the minimal space to support so many populations of people ⊠The Plague of Undeath is seeped deeply into a lot of the natural environments up there. Part of the issues with the Alliance attempting to farm in Borean and the downfall of Zul Drak is due to the saturation of Plague in the soil.
Wanting to push the entirety of the Horde out of penance into Northrend is akin to saying out of penance they should all die off. And those that do survive will have to struggle every day to just âsurviveâ and will never have an opportunities to prosper. What tiny future remains for some will never be a bright one.
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The Wildhammer in the Hinterlands? That city is only about a generation and a half old for the Dwarven lifespan. Just like with the Stonespire the Dwarves have this annoying tendency to settle in another groupâs territory, and then when that group is justifiably pissed and wants them out ⊠the Dwarves are the victims. Purely because they didnât throw the first punch, and those that they stole their land from did. And they do things like âwipe outâ or âpush backâ the natives.
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HustAzshara âŠand Goblins? YOu know, night elf TerritoryâŠuuups ,)
If what the dwarves are doing in the Hinterlands is colonialism, so are the goblins in Azshara.
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Azshara was a fetted ruin that even the NEs didnât want to repopulate after Illidanâs little âkilling spreeâ. But I take your point. Micah simply asked for an example of Alliance colonialism, and I gave one. I was not denying that the Horde hasnât practiced it. Granted, the Alliance donât have much reason to colonize since they already owned everything, but thatâs a different topic.
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The really interesting thing is that the dwarves were able to settle in the hinterland without a fight, there is no evidence of a war there.
Pretty sure the entire point of that story in that zone is their conflict with the local Forest Trolls, but ⊠honestly ⊠there is very little story in the Hinterlands to begin with. Its a fairly neglected zone in terms of storytelling. For all we know they DID invade aggressively. There isnât much content on the creation and foundation of Aerie Peak.
NOW, but 250 years ago, the dwarfs settle there after they lost their horme after the war of the three hammer and the lost of GrimâBatol without a fight
Right, and thatâs my point. We donât know. There is no content on that. We know WHY they went there. But we donât know what the process of founding that city required. They could have pushed the Local Forest Trolls out. The Hinterlands is the ONE Bastion of Forest Troll territory they really had left to them up until then. I canât imagine theyâd just let the Dwarves move in willingly.
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And because we donât knowâŠdo you just say they invaded aggressively, you know the foresttrolls were absolutely hiding before the 2nd war because they were hunted mercilessly?
So then the Wildhammer made use of the Forest Trollâs fear of Genocide to take their territories and land? Iâm not sure thatâs much better. Point remains, it is still and example colonialism from the Alliance; in a setting where they already kind of own everything.
This is rather to say that we know nothing about this potential fight, because it probably never took place.
Fair enough. Long story short, it IS an example of what Micah was asking for. 
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And one I had actually forgotten about, since the the wildhammer dwarves arenât bought up much in WoW 
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Aapologies to Badmaa for my earlier cynicism, I think there is a possibility of a Horde-focused story that involves moving from Orgrimmar that (basically) completely ignores the Alliance. Iâve taken the steps to write it out!
Location: Grommashâs Hold (is it even still called that? IT IS?! Wow).
Horde council present: Thrall, Rokhan, Baine, Lorâthemar, Gazlowe, Ji Firepaw (yeah heâs a real person), Thalyssra, Mayla Highmountain, Geyaârah, Talanji, Kiro, Lilian Voss, as well as Aggra, Calia Menethil, Nazgrim, and Valeera Sanguinar. The last folks just seem to come along to places. Oh and the Maw Speaker Champion Walker is there TOO!
Backdrop: There is yet another supply shortage in Orgrimmar. The city is being overwhelmed by the sheer level of resources required. The unjustified inhospitableness of the Night Elves of Ashenvale leaves Orgrimmar unable to sustain itself. Conversation is heated.
Begin scene:
Gazlowe: Maybe we can build something thatâll dig a hole into the desert. Something thatâll explode and make a big crater.
Lorâthemar: âŠHoping that weâll find sufficient water under the desert? Or some untapped resources perhaps?
Gazlowe: Yeah⊠sure. That too.
Kiro starts humming humming Dot and Dolly.
Everyone Else: Ugh, now thatâs stuck in my head.
Rokhan: Well mon, maybe we could move de capitol part of de capital. Take the leadership away from de city and move elsewhere.
Thrall: ⊠leaving Orgrimmar to represent the Orcs still, but reducing the requirements to sustain it. It would also allow us to move away from the legacy of Garrosh that stains this very place.
Ji Firepaw: Perhaps we could move it to Thunder Bluff. The trip wouldnât be long andâŠ
Baine Bloodhoof: No! I donât want Thunder Bluff to be the next raid encounter⊠I mean, our mountain base is difficult to expand to accommodate the needs of the new capitol.
Mayla Highmountain: Well, Highmountain is large enough to support such an area. Itâs a bit colder, but Suramar is also nearby. And the Alliance doesnât seem interested in âŠ
Thrall: And the next time Jaina wants to go on a murder spree, Dalaran is floating nearby. Last time she almost murked me and everyone else. Plus - you know - I hate to say itâŠ
Mayla Highmountain: What? What is it?
Lilian Voss: Nobody wants to go back there. Nobody is even there anymore. Even Thalyssra here just sits around in QuelâThalas for some reason.
Thalyssra blushes at the obvious implications. Though itâs hard to tell since her skin is dark blue.
Lorâthemar: [coughs] Before anyone suggests it, QuelâThalas and/or Silvermoon are terrible ideas. The entire northern area is full of feral Scourge. We lost Arathi Highlands (shocker) and we really canât control the area.
Calia Menethil: But we could try to convert the feral Scourge and bring them into the light. Humans will love them again. Thatâs been my experience. Better yet, we could move to Northrend and convert them at the source!
Lorâthemar glaring at Calia: [muttering softly] I seriously hate this woman.
Calia: What?
Lorâthemar: I said, until the area is safe itâs probably not a great idea, but I do think itâs an excellent idea for you to go there and reach out to them. We donât want to send any military forces, but Iâm sure you can find a few friends among them quickly with your great wisdom.
Calia smiles brightly happy at the compliment, blissfully clueless.
The other Council members look to Talanji, quietly sighing at the removal of the prospect of Northrend.
Talanji: I just donât want you there.
Ji Firepaw before anyone can speak up: Last time you were in my lands you brought an Old God and a nightmare realm. Before that you upset the balance and dug up an Old God heart. Really. Please no. Pandas are endangered as it is. I mean Pandarians. Weâre endangered.
Thrall: Okay, this isnât going anywhere, letâs consider making a new capitol. In a more defensible area in southern Kalimdor. [Thrall points at the map on the table.] With the Orcish capital still at Orgrimmar, and reinforced locations across Stonetalon and the BarrensâŠ
Geyaârah - interrupting Thrall: Northern Barrens or Southern Barrens?
Everyone merely glares at her.
Thrall continues clearly annoyed: âNorthernâ Barrens we can still protect Thunder Bluff and Orgrimmar. Then we can move into⊠[his fingers trace across the map southward, going over the areas where every single action has been a Horde atrocity because for some reason they liked atrocities] Unâgoro Crater.
The rest of the council stares blankly at the map.
Thrall continues: While it is the low ground, it is surrounded by mountains as natural defenses. Fire Plume Ridge can provide high ground for visibility. It has plenty of trees, water, and wild life.
Gazlowe breaks the silence: Isnât that next to Silithus, where thereâs a giant sword sticking out of the planet leaking volatile explosive blood from a wound that threatens our entire survival?
Thrall nods.
Gazlowe continues: Right. Okay, isnât it also near a kingdom of bugs that worship CâThun?
Thrall nods again.
Gazlowe still continues: Isnât it also next to the place where NâZoth invaded repeatedly trying to warp all of our minds and destroy/corrupt all of the planet?
Thrall nods once more.
Gazlowe: Donât the native inhabitants to the south hate all outsiders?
Thrall is touched by this argument and seems to finally be unsure of his suggestion: Harming natives is⊠bad.
Baine Bloodhoof: I know! We should build something that looks like Stormwind. Probably in the Eastern Kingdoms. Maybe even in the Wetlands!
Lorâthemar: ⊠that sounds an awful lot like âŠ
Baine continues: Or better yet, we can make it in Stormwind. And we can work with the Alliance. And I can get a bunk bed with Anduin. Every night we can wrestle for the top bunk, but I wonât take it because it probably wonât hold me and I might squish him. Plus heâll probably always win anyway.
Lorâthemar seemingly ignoring Baine: Unâgoro Crater it is. Letâs start packing immediately before anything ⊠[glancing over at Baine] weird happens. Weâll come up with a name on the way!
Baine exclaims: Stormwind 2! And we can make it a big castle!
Lorâthemar: Weâll workshop it.
Baine continues talking about plans to have Anduin sleepover at Stormwind 2 on weekends and weekdays theyâll play at Stormwind 1.
Lorâthemar: Maw Champion Speaker Walker, you will become the Lead Mover of the Horde. Through your guidance we will move the capitol to Unâgoro and establish a better seat of government. All hail the Lead Mover!
All at once except Baine and Kiro who are still in their own worlds: Hail!
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