It always surprises people when they hear that I played Horde for two expansions. TBC and half of WotLK and ended up rerolling Alliance because even during this “good Horde” period I kept on doing obviously bad things as part of Horde questing, particularly in the EK.
The Horde as an “edgelord barbarian” group tends to work best in a PvE context but the Horde’s brains seem to just collectively break when the Alliance is involved, and pwning the pretties suddenly becomes top priority.
The Alliance never needed the Boy King, even by their own words. The Horde though, needed him leading desperately.
They never really hid the “evilness” of the Forsaken since the days of Vanilla. They weren’t exactly nice to prisoners they kept in the depths of UC when the were using humans and dwarves as living test subjects for blight. In Cataclysm they ramped it up to 11, which is annoying. It makes me glad I never quested in EK on any of my main Horde toons.
Here’s to hoping that with the dismissal of all the really “villainous” Horde leaders and the formation of the Horde council the days of being edgelord barbarians are behind us.
Let someone on the Alliance start the next war if Blizzard ever feels the itch again, God forbid.
Why would you say this? Why would you even think this? You realize you just sealed the next expansion to reveal Gazlowe has been secretly working for the guy who helped initially engineer and cause the plague that ended up creating the leper gnomes in Gnomergan.
And he’s been trying to create as many inventions as he can to speed along the process so that he can … something something … loot pinata!
Also that evil supervillain is a void lord and actually tricked the Jailer into doing everything we’ve seen so far.
And in the expansion after we will find out that Lor’themar made a deal after kael’thas had his story butchered - I mean after Lorthemar started acting like a Horde leader - and it’s with a Naaru. Yeah - gasp - right? 20 years in the making! And that Naaru has been helping the Blood Elves but now it wants them to slaughter everyone who isn’t a priest or Paladin. Because reasons. And it turns out they’re not a real Naaru and we have a scooby doo villain reveal where it turns out to be … alternate universe Kil’Jaeden because our time traveling exploits to Draenor created a copy of him and he went to help …
I don’t know. I give up.
If you take away the Edgelord Barbarian aspect you basically don’t have the Horde anymore. You have the Alliance but ugly.
I guess we’d become the Alliance but … Vanilla?
After all, the Alliance themselves have ascended to near inhuman levels of purity and perfection. Ironic since they actually have humans on their race roster. Seems there is a vacancy open. 
Dudes and dudettes… the fact the post saying "screw more humiliation of the Horde at the cost of the Alliance, some of us Hordies rather get Blizzard focused in taking a freakiung deffinitive stance with the Horde, focusing the development to reach and ciment THIS stance once they decide their answer regardless of the Alliance players and/or the NPCs should had told ALL OF YOU the relevance “making up to the Alliance in-game or their players” has right now for a good portion of the Horde posters.
Not our fault the answer is NOT the one you wanted to hear, but it is what it is, period.
Was she attacked or by the contrary, has SHE attacked people for not saying “amazing scenario, pl0x Blizz implement!!!”… cause me thinks NONE of us called her names, insulted her, trolled her, made fun or her nor any other “harrasement” behaviour until she degenerated into this very behaviours herself.
Tl;dr: please, stop defending the actual bully tyvm.
Actually after the “unlife last eons” BS, one could say the one that is -or should be- “meaningless” if the LIFE. As a matter of fact this is one of the parts of the lore that IS incoherent AF -why should people by judged and condemned by their 5 secs of glorious “life” into a literal eternity of “torment” if they weren´t as good as some rando robot wanted (worse, a rando robot those people weren´t even aware it existed in the first place).
The “jewels” of current WoW writting.
They can be even “kinder”… if they get this figurative cake and eat it, they should let us play for free considering there won´t be cake for us U_U…
Make it full body horror, Calia goes nuts and gets killed by her horrified “family” -PTSD attack, sorry-. Forsaken revive her the good `ol zombie way and voilá!! NOW we can talk about “Forsaken Calia” indeed!!
If only man… literally what I siggested in a thread on the previous iteration of the forums after the fiasco of BtS was leaked.
But then again you can expect players complaining “Horde Bias” because Horde is gonna get new stuff and they just get old dirty Azeroth!!! 
Considering his post is entirely about the Forsaken, I wouldn’t be surprised if he thinks “no more edgelord barbarian Horde” would mean all the orcs start acting like the Incredible Hulk.
The child-appropriate cartoon version.
Tl;dr: please, stop defending the actual bully tyvm.
You’re the bully, Ariel. You always have been.
I called out people for not reading the scenario but replying to it with their set of stock lines anyhow - you were part of that, supplying elements that you wanted to attack but weren’t in the scenario, and when you and others got called on that, you either insisted that they would have been there anyway, or in Droite’s case, I saw the real reason why Horde posters didn’t like the scenario: because it would have helped Night Elf issues too.
That’s pretty consistent with your posting history, unfortunately. As I said - these problems interconnect, you don’t get to consider them in a vacuum, but you don’t care about that. You don’t care that other player communities want things too, or are hurting too - you only care about yourself. You present yourself as a selfish, narcissistic jerk, and on that basis your contributions, if you can call them that, have no redeeming value.
If you want to change my mind, then talk about things that actually were in the scenario, and work with me to come up with a mutually beneficial solution. If you can’t or won’t do that, then please stop wasting everyone’s time.
This thread isn’t about the Night elves, pvp or who has it worse. It’s about how can we fix the HORDE so the horde PLAYERS can be invested in the story again. Really wish you would grasp that and stop with the victim hood.
And considering you said horde players are too stupid to know what they’re arguing against and that we’re extremists for disagreeing with you, you have ZERO room to talk
Post 89. Do I need to list the … I don’t know, let’s say conservatively 100+ posts that have said that the Horde player base just doesn’t want to continue with any sort of conflict between factions? And yet you’ve rehashed the same proposal you think is a great solution - when the stakeholders here have said they’re just not interested because it doesn’t work for them. It’s a non-starter.
That’s going back one week (out of over 300 posts you’ve made in this thread in the last 28 days). One week of you acting dismissively to the concerns of the Horde, chastising dissenters, ordering people around, and in general being abusive to folks.
I don’t know Ariel’s history with you, so I cannot comment on it, but in general, you’ve been quite a bully in a thread where you’ve continually tried to reframe the original title context into how to solve your list of grievances.
I gave you a suggestion earlier for how to reframe a conflict narrative. You never responded.
It’s not perfect - but it’s a framework that might allow you to see from a Horde point of view how we view this conflict idea. This takes the Horde out of the crosshairs and instead allows the Night Elves to work out their victim complex against the Alliance, leaving the Horde as innocent bystanders, who the Night Elves have to go out of their way to fight (and who have the smallest amount of capabilities and defenses). In essence, you get to pick on the little guy.
And maybe from that point of view you’d understand why Horde players would really not sign up to play that battleground - so expect queue times in the hours.
Edit: here’s a challenge I’d place to you. Just based on some of my conversations I’ve seen support (on some level) for
a) Having BfA be a hallucination from N’Zoth
b) Time traveling to prevent anywhere from 10 to 2 years of stories from ever taking place
c) Raising Horde heroes from the dead to bolster our ridiculously depleted roster of heroes
d) Reviving everyone from Teldrassil and even reviving the tree itself
e) Leaving the Horde to join the Illidari
f) Never interacting with the Alliance again
g) Leaving Azeroth entirely
h) Giving up on the idea entirely of the Horde being heroic in any sense and instead just making them pure evil
Never mind that these solutions are extremes that everyone basically says they would hate to use - they just don’t see many better options. From that mentality, can you possibly see that you’ve been trying to solve a problem from a completely wrong position?
(As an aside I would add that not every Horde poster subscribes to every option listed, or even any, but it’s intended to cover a wide range that I’ve noticed - not even all options)
Chu, this thread is almost a month old.
Battlefield. Three teams - Nelfs, Horde, Alliance.
The Nelfs are against everyone. Horde and Alliance against each other. Nelfs lose when the timer expires.
Um … why shouldn’t the Horde be willing to participate in this? It will be more difficult for the Alliance, since they have a divided queue? On the other hand, they can negotiate with each other. M, the Horde will suffer first, then the Alliance will fight between themselves, and then they will share the winnings.
Correctly?
No one is friendly and only one team can win. And it’s mostly intended to portray the Horde view of future faction conflict.
Generally, the scenario would (likely) play out that the Night Elves zerg down the Horde towers and then turn to face the Alliance. That means in most cases, the Horde will lose, with either the Night Elves or Alliance winning (in the case of the way Wintergrasp is currently set up, the Alliance would usually win because it’s extremely lopsided for defenders, but that’s a different topic entirely).
A curious way to build a story. The cataclysm will look like this - two Horde teams, two Alliances; The Horde jointly destroys one of the Alliance teams, then squabbles among themselves, Alliance-2 at this time must destroy the only Horde fortress, awarding itself (Alliance-2) and one of the Horde teams victory?
Sounds awful as a battlefield, right?
@Kyalin , have you renewed your subscription?
Swirl in the endless mad swamp, which is called the forum here.
They gnaw everything at each other’s legs and arms to die in a little drier places.
We will remember everything, we will list everything, we will not remember our allies.
We will condemn all of you and clean your faces, because we are noble people!
We suffered, lost, and the time comes to take revenge on our offenders.
Sleep in an endless and evil swamp, so that our dreams are more beautiful for us.
And no longer touch or look even at the evil stupid competitors!
After all, we are perfection, and there is no life more beautiful than living where there are no competitors.
The attempt at ambiguity most likely failed.
I’m not quite sure what the point was in quoting various rebuttals consisting of objections like “this is a logical fallacy”, “this is a straw man”, or in every case of the anger-issues series, a marked-as-satire demonstration of my issue with posting styles that fail to consider the entire post before replying.
It seems like your general point here is “how dare you disagree with people” - which is a standard that I know you aren’t subjecting to other people. Or more appropriately, you’re going to bat for your “side” here, and ignoring the problems with things they say - although it did slip out, if briefly:
Never mind that these solutions are extremes that everyone basically says they would hate to use - they just don’t see many better options.
They are extremes, yes - extremes that wouldn’t work as sincere solutions - and there are such things as improper responses to the problem. If you hypothetically argued to destroy the Alliance so that the Horde never had to feel bad about it again, that would be an inappropriate solution, yes. Hence we should discard it and consider other ideas.
As for a mentality that favors extreme solutions? I have to go back to how I felt during Cataclysm and MOP - the anger and bargaining and depression stages of “grief” (and I very much think that is what this is) are volatile things and I can easily see how they could produce such answers. That doesn’t mean I have to accept them as correct.
Regarding your earlier post - you may have noticed that my posting cadence went down since Thursday - there was a reason for that, but I apologize for missing your proposal, so in closing I will reply to it now:
I’m not quite sure what puts NIght Elves in contact with Human settlements. I’m not sure how the Horde ends up in the crossfire between them. I’m not sure why two powers on opposite ends of the geopolitical chessboard end up in a struggle like this that doesn’t simply end in decoupling. I’m not sure how this resolves the matter of the lopsided rivalry currently dogging the franchise.
But, I don’t think you really intended to solve these issues, because as your follow-up comments indicate, you’re trying to get me to see things from the Horde point of view - which removes the point of the suggestion in my mind - I’ve already spent quite a bit of time understanding the Horde point of view. The problem that I have is that no one seems to want to go over the hard project of solving Horde motivation within Warcraft’s present framework because they’re too busy wailing about how bad things are, and frankly, looking for ways to lash out at Alliance players.
I have no doubt that you’ll object to that - just as you objected to the idea that I shouldn’t call out straw-man fallacies, false choice fallacies, is/ought fallacies, and failures to understand the relative impact of storytelling elements - but, given the bias inherent in your standards, I can’t say I’m that concerned.
More than curious - it’s unlikely to have many folks play it. That’s (partly) the point. It’s designed to implement a PVP narrative that fits within the scope that the Horde exists inside of and ultimately reflect the views of the Horde toward more faction conflict. From a Horde perspective, joining that battleground as I outlined would be akin to self-flagellation. We want to be left alone, we have little to defend, little hope of defending it, and likely are the first casualty.
LOL! there it is again.
From a Horde perspective, joining that battleground as I outlined would be akin to self-flagellation. We want to be left alone, we have little to defend, little hope of defending it, and likely are the first casualty.
It’s not a 1:1 comparison, but this is what the War of the Thorns was - and what the Night Elf experience generally is - but I notice that you don’t seem to want to fix that problem. You seem to think that it’s appropriate and acceptable that we should have to deal with that impression forever.
Which, once again, is an inappropriate solution in a game where all of these problems are linked, and there are multiple stakeholders that you have to cater to.
Night elves have no buildings at all. Yes, it is profitable, they cannot lose. Can we say that such a mechanic was added to them only because they godlessly lost all the previous battlefields?
Wait a minute. The night elves’ lack of structures is because Teldrassil burned down?