I was thinking about the 8.2.5 cutscene where he references the Path of Glory’s unique construction materials.
Right, but that’s more about how orcish honor was allways rooted in something that wasn’t real. It was founded on false notions. But nothing about Gul’dan, who couldn’t give a rat’s behind about anything but furthering his own station and power.
I miss that version of Varian…
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To be fair, given the context its … a parallel thought to some extent. Like, people are going to hate me for this, but the Horde didn’t commit genocide in the strictest sense. The Horde was made a tool for a genocidal act. But never within the Horde (outside of Sylvie and maybe Nate) was there ever and intent or attempt by the Horde to eradicate the NE civilization before or after the Burning of Teld. And as for Teld itself, there was only one person who knew enough about was waiting for the Horde in the Tree to make an informed decision. Sylvanas, thanks to Delaryn. For the rest of the Horde, for all they knew what awaited them was another Horde meatgrinder like Darkshore and Ashenvale; or even the Alliance reinforcements themselves (both of which were Saurfang’s initial thoughts when she gave the order).
This does not make Teldrassil any less horrific, but for the Horde it could be more equated to the dropping of the Atomic Bombs on Japan. Or at least its an easy excuse Sylvanas could default on. It also does place that parallel with the Fel Horde, as truly … with both the Draenei and the First War … the Horde was merely made a witless tool for genocide. By manipulative actors intent on it. KJ, Sargaras, Sylvanas (if people don’t need more evidence to suggest how many villains Sylvie has been akining herself too. Its not just Arthas).
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Fair enough, I might have been reaching a bit. It just seemed like a logical connection to me that even the horde might not see itself as separate from the original one anymore, through Saurfang’s lines there.
People say the Alliance are whitewashed lol.
‘It wasn’t technically genocide. They just intentionally were killing every member of a particular, innocent race. What’s the problem?’
Now while I may argue with Velthyras and his ilk, he is not wrong that if events were portrayed just a bit differently, the Alliance would not be as “morally superior” to the Horde. But the thing is that would have required more effort to change than they think, even at the time.
It’s just on this particular forum, from certain undesireables, that the sentiment that teldrassil wasn’t really a genocide gets thrown about. Call it coping, cause that’s what it is.
I don’t know if it really matters. Horde warchief issues commands, horde goes along with it. Willing or not, they still paved the way for her to do it. They sure as hell didn’t question the chance to clash against militia and civilians. And they still supported her for a time afterward. Even if the meta reason might ultimately be “too awkward to write the faction fracturing right away,” the in-universe effect remains.
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Eh, that’s reliant on the Horde actually following Saurfang’s line of thinking (that he specifically only relays to Anduin), wherein a large portion of the Horde had followed Sylvanas until she abandoned them.
Considering that is basically the literal words of the Blood Oath, it actually makes a fair amount of narrative sense.
As long as the Warchief isn’t giving commands to harm the Horde it’s likely most would think they have the correct information to give orders that would seem unsavoury.
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It’s not just Teldrassil by any means. It’s a sore spot that some people can’t bring themselves to understand it as a coping mechanism, but if they would they might actually gain something. It’s to close to the truth though.
Except for all the content on the Horde side that stated that Saurfang deliberately ordered them to not attack non-combatants. But thanks to Blizz’s BS they just had to “grey” even that up. Seriously, I truly hate the WoT and everything it represents. From killing off Vol’jin to settup Sylvie as Warchief; to whitewashing all the acts of Alliance aggression proceeding it so they didn’t count; to not allowing the Horde even a valid reason for attacking the Blues; to writing Teld completely out of the story for the Reds … because they could not fathom a way to keep the Horde in line and the “twist” of Sylvanas betraying us with it included.
Hot garbage writing on so many levels its staggering. And thats JUST on the Horde side of things.
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Since when would Saurfang hold agency over the Queen of Warchiefs? You had multiple opportunities to kill innocents in that pre-patch event. Does being Warchief hold any sway whatsoever? It’s probably a good thing the position is going away.
The Horde was always bad and WC3 was the anomaly. Between Warcraft 1 and 2 and every expansion since WotLK the Horde has been evil for far longer than it’s been good.
“Warcraft III, Burning Crusade, and Wrath of the Lich King were all exceptions! Horde is evil!” 
Trololol, trolls gonna troll.
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Heck you can also add in the start of the Jailer storyline to WoT and the fact that it happening makes even less sense because of it.
If the Jailer had already broken the system of death before Teldrassil, then the dead there were unnecessary.
I’ll maintain that because of the Draka short, nothing Sylvanas has managed couldn’t have been done by the Jailer’s other more active allies.
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Are you gonna point out how your attempts to frame the Alliance not being as grey as the Horde needs, is somehow any different then what you’re claiming is trolling?
I’m also happy to reiterate what remains one of the absolute stupidest claims Blizzard has ever made:
Blizzard: Yeah, so, uh, Sylvanas first met the Jailer back during Edge of Night.
Playerbase: But…wait…that’s never mentioned anywhere in Edge of Night…?
Blizzard: It happened during Edge of Night.
Playerbase: No it didn’t, the story is literally right up here on your website—
Blizzard: DAMN IT, IT HAPPENED! SYLVANAS MET THE JAILER DURING EDGE OF NIGHT AND IS EVIL, DAMN IT!
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Personally I think that Sylvanas is evil not because she met the Jailer, but because of all the evil things that she has done.
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Which is understandable, linking her to some greater threat was dumb and her story would have been better served with either her growth or fall on her own merits and decisions.
EDIT: Which, come to think of it, now means that the Horde is dealing with a conga line of ‘I’ve done bad things because of X’
‘The Boy King wont be able to stop the warhawks from holding me accountable for my past of blighting land, men, and any iota of trust I would have with another creature capable of thought. He’s going to basically put someone in charge over there like me, Sylvanas, who can’t be trusted. So let’s commit technically not genocide, and you guys just don’t need to cry about it. It’s for my own persona- your own good. Family. Stuff like that.’
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