Someone correct me if I’m off the mark here, but APPEARS certain posters want the horde to redeem themselves, but only if the horde is dragged through the mud, again for the third time, kicked while they’re down, help them back up, just to slap them around a little more while reminding them of the vile monsters that they are.
And somehow, in all of this, the horde playerbase is supposed to be excited and down for this. Did I miss anything?
Wait for it…
I’m just reading these posts and I keep thinking Do these people really understand what they’re suggesting, to the very faction that was just villan batted and it’s entire concept dragged through the mud AGAIN, for the 2nd time in a row
What is the motive?
Because I’m still scratching my head as to why the hell we’re even in Ashenvale beyond giving a reason for the NEs to “…result in as many dead Orcs as possible.” The Horde even being in Ashenvale serves to make us the antagonists of this story. You keep pretending like us being a literal invasive force in that zone somehow equals motive to be there? All you are doing with this scenario is trying to BS a reason for the NEs to get to stomp on the Horde … but still keep their absolute morality relatively intact. Because we will be the aggressors in such a scenario fighting in and for NE land. The NEs the defenders.
There is no Horde motive for this conflict beyond the need for this conflict to exist so the NEs and Alliance get to “push the Horde out of Ashenvale for Good”.
Again, this tells me that you didn’t read the proposal, which is incredibly frustrating to me.
You’re insisting that I’m not wanting to show the Alliance as aggressive, but when I try to go and do that, you won’t even read it. How am I to solve this problem then? How is anyone? How am I to communicate you a method for showing the Alliance as being aggressive if you just aren’t interested in hearing about it?
I’m just having a hard time coming up with viable solutions when one side, the horde players, are just so disinterested in another faction conflict, where we know blizz will ultimately make the horde to out to be the bad guys again. Because no one on team blue actually wants to be the bad guys, as much as they claim they do.
No, I think what I always think. I think that you, like many Alliance poster, WANT to be aggressive. You just don’t want the negative implications that normally come with that. So you’ve crafted a situation where the NEs get to be “Savage”, but all they are really doing is defending their home against an invasive Horde force. Who then escalates, rather than retreats, fighting over NE land. Thus, you get to be “aggressive”, but being the defenders its the Horde that’s the antagonists in that scenario. You do get that right?
The Horde being in Ashenvale already makes us the villain of that story. Thus, the NEs will get to do whatever they want to an invading force … and will be portrayed as totally justified.
No, they’re not. Again, read the proposal. The Night Elf questing before the proposal in Ashenvale shows how they secured it, and THEN we get into the gulch content. I introduced a character who deliberately goes on terror raids into the Barrens, intentionally against civilians, some of whom are introduced in Horde barrens questing, who the Horde character is in opposition to - with the battleground’s conflict being on the border.
Again, if you read the proposal, you would have seen that. The main warsong commander in this is in no way an antagonist. He’s an old veteran who decided to try to become a farmer but felt like he had to take up arms again to defend his home - in the Barrens for crying in the sink. How are the Horde the antagonists in this scenario?
I read your proposal. Didn’t see anything that would motivate Horde to want to PvP against Night Elves.
You even went out of your way to recruit allies for your scenario, gnomes for the Night Elves and steamwheedle for orcs…
Why a neutral faction for the Horde? Why are the Horde even there?
The Gulch is in Ashenvale. That is NE land. You’re fighting to push out an Orc Settler stealing NE land!
No, it isn’t. Half of it is in the Barrens, the other half is in Ashenvale. It’s border territory - and the Horde is explicitly fighting there because the Night Elves are, after having secured Ashenvale, sending raiding parties into the Barrens. It’s to protect the border, and the people living on their side of it.
That again was pretty clear in the proposal!
@ Gantrithor
Fair point on the Steamwheedle. Should have been Bilgewater.
So, then wouldn’t we be fighting in the barrens rather than the gulch? Because if this is the settup, the Horde has no reason to push back into the Ashenvale side of the Gulch. And frankly, any “Orc Veteran” stupid enough to try to settup a farm so close to NE territory is just asking to get murked. This feels like a really convoluted way to try to get the Horde invested in fighting the NEs … when after like 2 and 1/2 years of being guilt tripped for being forced to fight the NEs … we have no reason to.
Orcs built “farms” so close to NE territories? They should expect to get gutted, if they aren’t willing to move. Their stupidity is not an incentive for me to risk villain batting again.
In the scenario, the Night Elven raiding parties are attempting to strike as far south as the Crossroads - the point of the questing that leads up to this is that the Night Elves are explicitly going after civilian settlements. This isn’t some guy who lives on the border. This isn’t someone who was even involved in the last few wars. I went out of my way to make this guy as alabaster white as possible.
The warsong further largely aren’t. Gantrithor for example mentioned my oversight involving the Steamwheedle, not the Bilgewater cartel. They’re using those mines to mine the approaches to the Mor’shan Rampart. Again, their goal is framed defensively, they are trying to secure the border and stop the raids.
I reread it and if I got this right, the premise of that thread is that night elves are raiding the barrens side of the border as a long-awaited revenge of Ashenvale being invaded during the third war, prompting the horde to want to push back in again?
I don’t actually see any mention of the night elves in the example doing anything more than just raiding a lumber camp. If protecting civilians is supposed to be the horde motivation, I don’t think it’s even hinted at until you get to the horde-side exalted stage of the quest chain. Not that I’m even interested in storylines about protecting horde civilians anymore, but I’m not actually seeing the word citizen show up until post #19.
It just feels like a poor excuse to ram another PvP faction conflict down players throats again. We didn’t learn our lessson the first two times we invaded Ashenvale, maybe if we super Zug Zug it this time, we’ll catch them off guard!
And still no one has come up with a way to get horde players invested in this. Again, someone correct me if I’m misreading any of this.
Part of the proposal links to Barrens questing, which is incorporated through that link. I consider it required reading for the proposal. I appreciate that there’s a lot there to read through, but there has to be in order to ward off these very concerns. I also don’t remember putting a lumber camp anywhere in that.
The Mor’shan Base Camp is a lumber camp, which is where you described the initial horde quest starting and being described as having been destroyed and built offscreen days before the player gets there.
Just like how Tyrande/Shandis told us off in Ardenweald?
Because its nearly impossible to do. All this scenario would result in is the Horde reinforcing the borders with NE territories. With the largest scale being “maybe” the destruction of the GOBLIN made pass between Stonetalon and Ashenvale, ensuring the NEs have to come from the East. This also relies on the NEs being shockingly effective … outside of their friendly terrain, and the Horde having no real incentives to advance into Ashenvale again from either the Barrens or Azshara borders.
If its just BS raiding parties then removing the western access point in Stonetalon (a zone far easier to hold from the South than North) and bolstering defensive points right smack dab next to the main Horde capital (and fairly close to 3 others) … would be sufficient. No need to escalate beyond that. No motive to either.
It’s not as fun as some think it is and it’s a good way to get people to not engage or care about the story