I’m also having difficulty finding how your proposal resolves anything on either side.
I don’t recall it being one - but it’s also on the Barrens side of the border.
@ Droite
Where are you getting this shocking effectiveness outside of their borders? In the scenario described, the NIght Elves are sending outriders and raiding parties. It’s not as though they’re defeating Orcish armies in open plains, they’re deliberately avoiding them, and they are pushed out of Stonetalon.
As for bolstering defensive points - yeah, that’s what you’re doing. That’s the point of fighting for that gulch and trying to prevent the Night Elves from getting into the Barrens. Pretty simple.
Right, but there isn’t any reason for the Horde to need to extend into the Ashenvale to actually do that. And if the initial attacks on Horde civilians are as small scale as you’re suggesting, then there would be no reason to. Especially if the Stonetalon access point was destroyed, forcing the NEs to have to attack from the Sea or the East. We’d just bolster the borders … and “meh”.
EDIT: And as a note, the Worgen and Draenei did sign the armistice as far as I’m aware, even if the NEs did not. Which means, that should they get involved in any way in that struggle on behest of the NEs … the Armistice is broken. So, they would either be forced to let the NEs go it alone, or break it themselves.
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You aren’t extending into Ashenvale in this. I tried to deliberately avoid that. They are trying to extend into the Barrens. You are stopping them, and you’re doing so because the previous questing showed you that if you don’t, they’re going to do some pretty “grey” stuff.
I also don’t know that the Worgen or the Draenei signed the treaty - nor in the overall scenario do I think it should stand. The idea here is to get us back to the sort of simmering war that we had in Vanilla - something where if you wanted to participate in these border skirmishes, you could, but they’re not so huge and all-encompassing that you have to.
That only works if it’s in the background, something that gets commented on occasionally and not in your face like the faction conflict was in MoP and BfA…which ironically ended up being absolutely terrible all around both times blizz tried to make it front and center.
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Yeah, I still haven’t done chapter 3 of the Night Fae story due to it. Ahmanet wasen’t even a member of the Horde when Teldrassil burned. And hearing a stranger badmouth her like that just makes her distrust strangers even more
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It’s in the background if you want it to be. The idea is for this to be optional.
We’re never getting back to that. Ever. Especially so long as the Alliance continued to be portrayed as all that is good and just in the world. Which is unlikely to stop any time soon.
The Horde has no more legs to stand on in what you desire to be “healthy faction rivalry”, because we’re coming in to this situation completely undermined in validity. The only way you are going to get the Faction Conflict and PvP supported on a story level from now on is if the Alliance is without question the aggressors on every front for a while. The Horde doesn’t have the inclination or motives to do so. And the Horde playerbase has even less, being constantly shamed even now for participating in it.
After all, what we’re fighting against is all that is good, pure, and virtuous in this world. We’re fighting the Good Guys, which makes us by default … the Bad Guys.
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My character is a half breed who’s from AU Draenor, and was actually working for the alliance for a while when the whole burning went down. So being told off is like Well…these people are cray cray. Have fun rescuing those souls now. Because I’m not putting up with this
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Well, I made them the aggressors on this front, and you shunned it without reading it - to the point where I had to clarify it here, and even after that, I’m not being met with constructive ways of improving the Horde’s motivation, but a statement that it just can’t be done and nothing can be fixed.
Can you see how that can feel just a bit exasperating? I feel like I did try to meet your concerns and you’re just dismissing it because you were prepared to do that anyway.
I’m confused. If I run over your parents, don’t go to jail, and spend my time writing my wrongs to everyone but you, how would that redeem me?
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No you didn’t. You tried to meet them within your agenda, but that agenda came first. Off your motives and desires to continue supporting the Faction Conflict and PvP on a story level, to give you a chance to operate off your race and faction’s unresolved motives and grievances. And since you need the Horde to be involved to resolve them, you clearly half-baked a reason for the Horde to be involved. With very minimal consideration of what that involvement would mean for the Horde; or how weak that motivation truly is.
You started with a conclusion, worked your way back. Which is why despite every single Horde poster opposing your suggestion (both on this thread, and the one you made it on) … it isn’t resonating with you that this is not something even close to appealing to us. This is for you, we’re an afterthought.
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If the horde helps rescues NE souls, helps NE by handing them Sylvanas head as promised by Thrall, and the NE are cool with that, the horde shouldn’t give if a damn if the rest of the alliance thinks they got off scot free is the point.
Does that clear things up?
I don’t think the rest of the alliance cares. Are we talking about the characters or the players?
Most of the characters (leaders at least) tolerate the horde. It’s Tyrande screaming revenge, if that, since she’s willing to work with the horde player.
One of the points you keep mentioning is your own lack of motivation to PvP as a night elf because the story, in your opinion, portrays the race as a “pity object”.
How exactly does your proposal change that? With night elves killing Horde civilians?
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And without the horde or it’s players going Yeah, we deserved that, but if we strike back, we’re just the big bad monsters
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The proposal allows the Horde to mostly stop the activity - with a questline that ends in an expression of their competence and the ability to do that in the battleground - as opposed to simply defining the race by a massive tragedy and not allowing for proper resolution.
@ Droite
I’m afraid that this is probably going to mark the end of my attempts to reason with you in this case. You made it clear to me that you didn’t read the proposal in the beginning. I still don’t think you have - and have made it clear that you’re simply going to shoot down any attempt to resolve this problem. You’re doing nothing in the way of offering suggestions to improve it or telling me what I’m missing - you’re just calling my motives impure and refusing to engage.
You’re unreasonable, and you reflect nothing other than your personal bias.
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That is literally the only thing I can think of in this scenario that would make the Horde seem at all looked upon favourably for participating in this new WG, but it’s so out of character for night elves that it would make little sense.
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so, on the same writing level as the rest of BFA then?
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To be fair, you’ve had multiple horde posters in this very OP tell you numerous times it’s a bad idea and that it does nothing to actually get horde players excited or engaged.
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