Ohhhhh! k.
What share? You mean Legion, where the entire Horde faction could have been cut out without changing a single thing? We were so uninvolved that it was kind of laughable. Or how one of two characters we get in SLs was discarded as worthless garbage by the very people who kidnaped him? And heâs apparently our âHeart and Bestâ? Thank god they changed it from us buying him back from Veânari lol!
And as a note, I like Baine, but I want him to actually have a personal character arc for once. Rather than being shackled with being a Token Good Horde plot device; or made an accessory for Anduin. If Blizz is actually serious about letting us rebuild and get âredeemedâ, then he shouldnât need to be either of those things anymore. His characterization needs need to be allowed to come first for once.
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Two zones of the expansion were about Horde races.
I doubt you could cut two whole zones of that expansion and not see any changes.
Come on. Pls. Really⊠pls.
Donât you dare suggest that because the Highmountain and Nightborne became Horde ARs at the end of the Legion that it somehow retroactively makes the Horde more relevant in Legionâs story? Because it doesnât. We were still as uninvolved in the downfall of the Legion as we could possibly be, with the ONLY relevance to the entire story up through the fall of Argus being Sylvie going on a totally unrelated errand in Stormheim. Where she ⊠sigh ⊠pulls an homage to Arthasâ âNew World Orderâ line when he killed his dad. But only to the Alliance PC. To really solidify Jin died in such an unbelievably insulting way, and had his faith stomped all over, so she could do something awful with the Horde.
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In hindsight? Absolutely.
I disagree because when I play those zones now all I know is that I am helping the Horde races who would betray my efforts and genocide my purple allies.
We can both play this game of what counts and what doesnât but what I am saying is true isnât it? They are both Horde races and Legion has two whole zones + end game content specifically for them. Why is it you cannot be satisfied when Blizzard makes content for you but then start screaming what little they give to the Alliance? Did you see what a half assed rushed content they delivered for Light Forged and Void Elves? Its not even fair⊠but you are still unsatisfied.
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What do you want me to say? My opinion is so well respected.
Let the Horde have a big bad guy expansion, as long as I get Dwarf lore/zones, Gnome interactions, and sure some Void Elf stuff. Ooo, even more Gilneas stuff, Id like that.
None of that barring Horde character development, except Zekhan because heâs dumb.
So what? Iâm doing that on Argus.
Hell, I donât think I work for a single Horde or Horde/Neutral Rep in the battle against the Legion in all of that expansion. Outside of Liadrin, who has a grand total of two WCs on Argus. Or Aethas, who has us hunt down a muffin thief. And they arenât even Horde races by the time youâre aiding them, so suck it up and welcome to the consequences of a Expansion Based MMO. Time is a tricky thing.
As a side note, it was also kind of the most depressing thing that the one good thing the Horde got out of BfA was its ARs ⊠and nearly all of their reps voice their regrets joining the Faction during the expac. Including equating us to the Legion in the case of the Nightborne. Gotta love âHorde ExpansionsââŠ
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To be honest, weâre all pretty overdue for an Anti Cata expansion. I would truly like some time to just reconnect with the Horde and its peoples for a while and not even think about the Alliance and their crap. And I would assume many Alliance players would like to do the same. Some breathing space would be nice.
5 Likes
Yes Argus. 1 zone which isnât even about Void Elves or Light Forged Draenei but rather the legion invasions. The central figures of this expansion were Illidan, Khadgar and Velen.
I donât think Velen has done anything since his introduction until WoD and that wasnât even the real Velen. He was for all intents and purposes neutral. But if you could pick a neutral Horde character who would it be on the home world of the Draenei?
Perhaps we can use your neglectful parent and child comparison here.
Right now we both have a toy each. You arenât satisfied with just yours, you want both.
You got two zones and I got Velen finally doing something. Yey!
Suramar was a really cool zone and the story was pretty interesting, still the only one that I found memorable in recent times so congrats about it being about a race that is relevant to you. What I got was assisting the enemy which I think you are familiar with.
1 Like
I would like yours to have a bit more nuance, nothing else. I donât want to blow up your crap. I donât want to kill your characters. I just want you to have enough moral ambiguity and room for flaws to allow my faction to be allowed positive traits as well. And I get that thatâs something unappealing to you. Since you want the Horde to go full villain, and seem to revel in the Alliance being these paragons of every virtue. But I personally do truly believe that one of the most damaging things to the overall story of this game is Blizzâs unwillingness to allow the Alliance to be any semblance of âgreyâ. Without rushing to bury those odd occasions they fringe on it under a mountain of justifications and whitewashing.
I want nothing else but for the Alliance to return to a state closer to what they had in WotLK; so that âmaybeâ the Horde might have a chance to do the same. But so long as the Alliance revels in Moral Absolutism (where they are always virtuous, right, and above all justified) ⊠the Horde will alway be forced to pick up the slack in both âgreyâ and âflawsâ. And that burden of both is made all the more pronounced by being forced to shoulder both alone more and more since Cata. Like it or not, that is how Blizz writes the two Factions. And has for over a decade. The more flawless the Alliance becomes, the more flaws the Horde has to have. The more virtuous the Alliance has to be, the less virtues the Horde is allowed.
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What is unappealing to me is you wanting to have those two entire zones being about Horde races and also wanting your characters to have center stage in the last patch of the game which was specifically about the Draenei home world⊠i mean dude⊠You canât even let the alliance have the spotlight for one patch?
Is it really too hard to ask for the Horde and the Orcs I guess not to butt in a story branch that really isnât relevant to them? Kilâs and Velenâs rivalry has been a story building block for years and when we finally got to address it you are mad and say its unfair.
Thatâs what we are talking about here, not really sure what you were going on there about.
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How dare I not expect the Orcs to have at least a bit part in the taking out of KJ? The one who used their faith and health against them to turn them into monsters for a personal grudge, and destroyed their world? Thatâs about as selfish of me as expecting the Forsaken and BEs would be allowed any relevance in the downfall of Arthas? LOL ⊠no chance for either there. Its pretty par for the course tbhâŠ
So about two years of content where the Horde was an optional side-kick in the Alliance-Alliance/Neutralâs stories against the Legion ⊠is invalidated because the NBs and HM were made ARs after the Legionâs downfall and the expac was over? Sure, whatever. And me asking for a single, token god damned rep on the front lines of Legion to allow some inclusivity for my faction in that story ⊠is me being unreasonable.
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What is the difference in this post between âToken Good Hordeâ, and accessory to Anduin? What are you expecting from him exactly?
Why should they? And KJâs death was before Argus. So after that what business did they have on Argus? KJ is dead.
We had the entire WoD for the Orcs entire history⊠and didnât they kill Archimond and Mannoroth TWICE? Dude let the Draenei at least have something.
Like I said the entire WOD and AR zones for the Horde player were enough of a trade. How much more do you want that you canât even let the Alliance have the focus for one single solitary patch. Come on dude be fair a little.
How about the Tauren Tribal Leader whoâs also a coming of age story in theory not be forced into a passengerâs role for the Boy King of the Alliance?
Weâre in the land of the dead. Baine is a major leader of the single most Spirit Worshipping Race on all of Azeroth? Heâs one of three Horde characters we might get to come back to the world of the living with us? Donât you think it would be nice for him to get some sort of personal character arc independent of Anduin in such a setting? One where, for the first time in ages, heâs doesnât need to serve as a counterbalance for when Blizz wants to have their fun with a Horde despot?
For the First time in I do not know how long, Baine has no reason to be the Token Good Horde. Its not needed in this roster, or in this setting. Heâs been given what can be a strong catalyst for growth, being shown repeatedly how weak he is ⊠and told how worthless he is, by his own kidnapper. And he finds himself in the one damned setting that should have absurd relevance to his people and his story. So ⊠why not give it to him, and for the first time have a story for the guy that puts his characterization needs first?
I cannot believe that is such an unreasonable request with our apparent âBestâ and âHeartâ of the Horde. Unless the message truly is, âThe Best and Heart of the Horde is a worthless plot-device whoâs characterization needs always come after the stories need to use himâ. Which ⊠honestly, is pretty accurate with how Blizz writes the Horde as a Faction I suppose. We ARE Nothing. A worthless plot device that always has our characterization needs placed behind the stories needs to use us.
11 Likes
What do you mean Droite, surely you didnât expect Shaman (whose core theme are Dead People + Elements) and the Shamanistic-heavy faction (Horde via Trolls x2, Tauren x2, Orcs x2) to be relevant at all in Shadowlands?
Surely you appreciate the *checks notes * Death Knight Shadow Mages being used to sustain the portal to the afterlife instead of Shaman?
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Sigh ⊠I expect the Alliance (whoâs always ONLY ever had an antagonistic relationship with the Death Cosmology in the past) to find a hell of a lot more relevance than the Horde. Despite the multiple Horde cultures and races that have a far more nuanced range of relationships with that domain. Because Blizz has a comfort zone for these sort of stories, and the Horde can at best be written as convenient for that. Not a leading role of it, even part of the time.
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Yes ⊠WoD. Where the only rep the MU Horde got in the story was the one who refused to come back to the Horde; and spent the entire expac creepily stalking his AU Dead Parents. Where we, along with the Draenei (who held an equal role), systematically hunted down and killed every single Orc Lore character of note ⊠in an Expansion that stomped established Orc Lore into the Ground. Where it was revealed that Orcs were always evil monsters, and that dual tragedy of MU Draenor wasnât really that. Unless of course you buy and read Hellscream, then all of Orc kind except for AU Grom and Doomhammer are evil monsters by default. Those two are just witless fools meant to be Nerâzhul manipulated.
God I love âHorde ExpansionsââŠ
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How dare you suggest that the one race which actually has a literal god of death be allowed to have a starring role in a death-based expansion!? Horde races are inferior by the very fact of them not being human!
/s
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Either give one or two zones to the Alliance ARs in Legion or I am afraid your characters are taking a seat in the corner.
You canât have both, thats just selfish.
If I have to live with helping those ungrateful elves and mountain cows silently then so will you as Velen works out his family issues.
thanks