Maybe it is too much work but it certainly sounds interesting.
Garrosh 3.0 gives you quest to poison NE trees to prepare for an invasion but HGGS (Horde Good Guy Society) gives you the same quest but to reinforce the trees.
Idk, it sounds fun but I guess I am not the target audience here.
Iâll cop to totally blanking on Saurfangâs part in rescuing Baine and the little holdout in Swamp of Sorrows, so I was wrong about saying he did nothing on-screen. I didnât mean to lie about it; just for whatever reason, I completely skipped over those events in my memory when I was thinking about BFAâs war campaign in between the choice and 8.2.5. Which is admittedly kinda sad, given that one of those scenes comes directly after the choice. Bleh.
Youâre not wrong about Saurfang needing to do things undercover and out of sight. I think that, if BFA had to happen, Iâd have preferred a story where my character wasnât a part of the horde army under Sylvanasâs command at all, so I could divorce myself from the downer stuff. I know that wasnât going to happen, but because it didnât, it was just being railroaded into doing bad things and then having to compensate for it, which I found frustrating.
The reason why I brought up Tyrande is that (to me), it should have been just as unrealistic that her and Gennâs people would succeed, instead getting slaughtered in an attempt at taking back Darkshore while also weakening the allianceâs efforts elsewhere. But that would have made for a sucky, pointless story, so they got to successfully entrench themselves and eventually win (even if it was merely via dev comment later).
To be fair, Iâm looking at this from a 99% horde perspective so I could just be idealizing the other sideâs experience.
And what Identity is that Vuldezi? Because the WC3 Identity seems to be an impossible goal now after two rounds of the villain bat? The WC2 Horde is a dysfunctional nightmare. Weâve been portrayed as a Faction âjust prone to evilâ ⊠whenever its convenient for whatever story Blizz wants to tell for us to be evil. Which makes any future story or ârebuildingâ (the point of this OP) kind of irrelevant.
Because, truly, BfA was not an expansion written for the Hordeâs benefit. It was an expansion to assist Sylvie in setting up SLs, with the Horde being a vehicle to do that. We were little more than a plot-device. And you can absolutely tell that is the case because the values that the Horde is supposed to generally represent are present in the cinematics ⊠they just werenât allowed to matter until they were convenient for Sylvanas and her story. Its this same reason that Teld wasnât even allowed to be in the Horde War Campaign after the WoT prepatch, because the Horde reps being allowed to react to it would have made them inconvenient for that aforementioned Syvie story. So, despite it hurting their characterizations to not react, they were forced to sit on their hands and wait till they were âallowedâ to turn on her.
For that to work you have to put the goblins and forsaken on a pedestal of being this amazing foe that Alliance canât help but overcome.
Imagine Tyrande, Malfurion and her powerups are like the most epic charge you can think of.
But then this charge is scattered and collapses against the might of this puny little force called Nathanos.
It kind of went like this.
https://media1.tenor.com/images/f23ec10d890b8d7577cd4a63f27799eb/tenor.gif?itemid=9429687
I forget stuff pretty often, and even come to my own conclusions sometimes, but not without trying to be factual. I ainât taking it personally, except for the Thrall/Saurfang one. Heâs killing Forsaken with his bare hands.
I disagree with that idea though, that it just wasnât what you wanted. Well, you can not have enjoyed it, I kinda agree. The Horde should have been able to just not hVe another faction war story, but it still happened, and I will still say that the choice is better. What should have happened is something way in the past though, but with characters like Sylvanas, idk if like I just notice it more for whatever reason, but sheâs been bad news a long time, but didnât think to send Forsaken that could handle them green hands.
The two mentioned heroâs do succeed though, and I donât think a story where the Horde PC is allowed to not be involved in the main Horde effort, while still being in Org is very viable of believable. I might not have made any headway though.
I dunno if your character is completely impossible now, though. You could argue she still has jurisdiction over her night elven charges even when the bulk of the population moved to Stormwind. Sheâd then be struggling with keeping to her duties while likely getting obstructed by Stormwindâs own laws and policing forces. After all, it isnât like Maiev felt her hunt for Illidan stopped once he left the night elven borders.
Eh, I have several problems with that.
So, Iâm kind of stuck on that - wistfully reminiscing and snickering to myself about what say, banking regulation would look like if instead of a degreed professionals demanding information, the regulators sent a heavily armored, probably incredibly frustrated and therefore angry elf, armed with a crescent, limitless authority, and a woefully inadequate understanding of whatâs going on to burst into the corporate offices of some bank accused of illicit activity and make a mess of the place.
âMany craven investment banks have dared my wrath in ages past. None have survived!â
You canât build the Horde up as something to be feared, while expecting it to just stop everything and deal with all of its internal conflict, Droite, if that even is your main.
Idk what Horde you were watching growing up, but they did what they had to survive, but still held their dignity. The Horde was just prone to evil at its conception, so itâs all still there. Youâre focusing on the ugly side, instead of the dignity.
Youâre literally more concerned with what has happened, and trying to equalize it on the other faction, then expecting a way for it to be resolved.
Youâre right. It was written for some of the Hordes benefit thatâs why thereâs a choice of preference in the storyline, but it still has to wrap up in one way.
Idk what to tell you about them not jumping up and reacting âwhen you think they shouldâ. Which of these characters lost more of their Horde identity. Baine, or Sylvanas?
Thatâs kind of how I viewed the initial War of Thorns with the stuff being about the horde crashing against shopkeepers and militia. Itâd be like if the entire alliance got stonewalled by the peons you have to keep awake with booterangs.
Not that I was happy to see the horde win in the first place, but that was a head scratcher for me.
This actually happens during late MoP, if I remember correctly. By the .3 and .4 patch, the horde player character is meant to not have access to Orgrimmar. I think the game just expected you to handwave away the ability to do that.
Side note, FF14 stuff:
A patch or so is understandable, but not an entire expansion. That seems silly. Sylvanas has a secret service.
What dignity? Truly. We had another round of being used as witless tools for a genocidal maniac who betrayed us and discarded us. We had another round of a Horde races culture being used to Nerâzhul one of our Leaders to make it happen. We had another round of all our characters who should oppose that despot, not being allowed to oppose them ⊠because it would be inconvenient for them and their stories if they did it too soon. We had another round of the Peerless Alliance having to save us from ourselves.
For gods sake Vuldezi, the entire god damned Horde part of the story of BfA, Shadows Rising, and even parts of SLs so far has been actively shaming the Horde for what we were made to do in BfA. We have no dignity anymore. And Iâm not worried about âBeing Fearedâ (since again, its the WC3 Vision of the Horde I fell in love with, not that worthless, dysfunctional garbage of WC2) ⊠its having a Faction that makes sense to even exist at all anymore. Beyond simple game mechanics requiring it.
Horde Pride? Its been a non-factor since WotLK tbhâŠ
She sounds like a delight, though. I hope youâre able to find some way to play her again. She reminds me a bit of ZenâKisin back when he was stuck in a voodoo-empowered zombie apocalypse when the memo went out that Darkspear are giving up cannibalism and was suddenly thrust into the Cenarion Circle.
Fish out of water stories can be SO much fun.
Any of you reading this, should never again attempt to call me upset over these topics, when this is going on.
Iâm pretty sure Garrosh has dialogue about killing kids in the Bornean Tundra. Youâre worried, about the other faction plain as day.
They canât depose a leader they were so injured over being attacked an expansion before. Even with just the plain Jane heroâs without any outside consideration, theyâre not going to watch her do one thing they feel icky about, and jump and stomp about it going on. Youâre using elaborative thinking for why your characters canât do anything to stop Sylvanas until the time is right, but youâre apparently upset the Horde is shamed for what itâs done.
If youâre not worried about how the Horde may be feared then thatâs what leads me to believe you donât care about the Horde identity whatsoever. But, donât worry. I expect the Horde to not get anything satisfying at all because of this portrayal youâre wanting.
I can understand not wanting the Alliance save the Horde from themselves, but for no reason at all should the Alliance even be doing that to begin with. If you donât understand the dignity of existing in this story, and moving on once the characters who actually had to deal with the tragedies have also moved on, then that means you hVe up awhile ago. GG
Or the alternative. Why nearly every Horde poster on these subs disagrees with you.
You are coming exclusively from the stance of âYeah, theyâre more prone to evil, duhâ ⊠which means the reasons WHY they should act in evil ways donât really matter. Since that is the expectation. It doesnât matter how forced it is. Or how much they had to twist to even put Garrosh or Sylvie into the drivers seats in the first place. Or how much they had to shackle the other Horde reps to ALLOW Garrosh and Sylvieâs stories to happen (because those stories were setting up future expansions, and had to reach their conclusion). Since the expectation truly seems to be that theyâre evil, then theyâre evil. And it must come as quite a shock when so many Horde players invested in the story are so upset by the faction being used the way it has been. Or neglected so deeply like it has been. It must feel like its very undeserved.
You and I will never see eye to eye on this. Because you arenât coming from this from a Horde players pespective. Truly youâre not. You truly seem to be coming at this from the same angle that Small is up there. An Alliance player that may play Horde, but does not perceive the Moral Absolutism of the Alliance as a negative influence on the Meta Narrative of the overall story; and thus the Horde being forced to be the bad guy over and over again is just expected. No matter how little sense it makes anymore, or how little effort Blizz puts into explaining it. Which they barely bothered with the WoT.
The what now?
Iâm pretty sure youâre making sweeping generalizations with little to no knowledge of the lore. The conversation youâre referring to goes like this:
High Overlord Saurfang says: I think it was the sounds of the draenei children that unnerved most of them⊠You never forgetâŠ
High Overlord Saurfang says: Have you ever been to Jaggedswine Farm? When the swine are of age for the slaughter⊠Itâs that sound. The sound of the swine being killed⊠It resonates the loudest. Those are hard times for us older veterans.
Garrosh Hellscream says: But surely you cannot think that those children were born into innocence? They would have grown up and taken arms against us!
That is very different from Garrosh actually suggesting that the Horde slaughter children at the time of the conversation, which I hope you werenât trying to imply.
Kek, there is literally no dignity in âexistingâ in a story that constantly vilifies youâwhat sort of existence is that?
It is an existence without Honor.
I can just as easily say youâre not coming to this from the storyâs perspective either. Youâre entirely bothered by the moral absolutism of a single characterâs influence on the overall story.
The Horde stance of making its use of evil, as long as itâs useful is part of the narrative, but thatâs not the Hordes position on it. Theyâre unwitting, they just see it as benefiting their preferred outcome in the war lol. Quit putting words in my mouth, itâs getting old from you and the rest of them. If free living is the absolute expectation from the Horde, then they need to live by example, when theyâre the exact people keeping that from happening. If the Horde has been as rotten a taste in your mouth, for as long as it has been, thatâs where I start to reallly be confused on why youâre going ape about me stating plainly that theyâre evil here.
Moral Absolutism. Being portrayed as always right, always virtuous, and always justified in the end. Even if you werenât when to committed an act. Like it or not, outside of when they have to hit you guys with the stupid and nerf sticks to justify them using the Horde as the aggressors ⊠that is sort of your story.
Havenât you ever wondered why you arenât allowed any meaningful internal conflict? Its not because the Horde is just more interesting to tell those stories with; since they rarely make sense when they do. Havenât you ever wondered why the Horde is forced to always play the aggressors, but with less and less motive to do so each time? Despite the Alliance drowning in justifications to want to attack the Horde? Because in order to justify Horde antagonism, the Alliance might have to do something antagonistic ⊠and in their current iteration they arenât allowed to do that. The Alliance in its current state does boast Moral Absolutism. Constantly sheltered and insulated from any act of grey they might accidentally commit.
Seems like he was arguing that its ok to do it. No worries because one day they might be enemies [that we attack unprovoked].
I disagree its that cut and dry but why do you think I am a supported of this as you describe it. You know what never mind I have already spent way too much here. Time to make dinner.
I do have to say, that speaking as a Night Elf fan, I have found this somewhat confusing.
Night Elves get punished for their alleged âsinsâ all the time, even though theyâre things like âarroganceâ and âprideâ, which is rarely ever portrayed, or the framing of their concerns about the arcane as being nothing more than bigotry.
I also donât think Iâm ever going to hear the end of Horde players claiming that Teldrassil was justified because Fandral grew it, and therefore everyone living on it deserved to die.
To be fair, yes; he was trying to justify what Saurfang and the other orcs did back on Draenor.
Thatâs the whole point of that exchangeâitâs literally all about Saurfang the elder teaching the hotheaded Garrosh about honor, which resulted in what we got with âStonetalon Garrosh,â showing how he did take Saurfangâs teachings to heart.
Then we got Mists of Pandaria and it all went out the window.