Well it took you two weeks, but nice that you finally admit you’re a Horde alt of an Alliance main.
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No, I’ve never claimed I was a Horde main. That’s been you in complete goalie, Karen mode. It’s actually been my red background that’s triggered you every time. Btw, you’re obsessed.
Nah you insisted this was your main in another thread last week.
Eh, I don’t know that I like this way of looking at it for a couple of reasons.
- I don’t like validating that style of negotiation, where your negotiating partner pushes the boundaries of what’s acceptable repeatedly and gradually until they’ve moved your impression of the status quo. Countering that negotiating style means that you complain not only against the latest move, but the earlier ones of that class. Otherwise, you leave yourself with no defense against it.
- I don’t like the implication that people commenting on the story lack calmness, aren’t otherwise enjoying themselves or are generally unhappy or unwell. We lack the required information to make those judgments, certainly as people online who haven’t the faintest idea of who we’re actually talking to, and I feel like the assumption that we do gets bandied about to unreasonably cudgel arguments.
@ Kisin
I hear where you’re coming from. This character was a Warden of Darnassus whose entire character thesis was having a warden suddenly having to try to wrap her mind around how to deal with all of the new kinds of crime that should have arisen in the past 15 years that she would have no prior experience with - things like dealing with smugglers and gold launderers, having to respect jurisdiction (when that was an unheard of concept before), and of course, dealing with foreigners who are used to a written code of law instead of respecting that a Warden IS the law.
That character concept is of course, impossible now.
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Mmm, nah, you’re wrong. This was my main after my Orc Warrior lol. You were first making crap up because I posted on the character I was tuned to the forums with before. If your obsession is just that I’m dressed wrong, I’ll have to remind you we’re not in one of your echo chambers, and I can do whatever I want.
But it is not your current main, which you just admitted to.
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I mean the Horde goes evil all the time.
This time though they just say “yep, mass slaughter and conquest is something we do now”
After almost a decade of post wrath Horde baviour of what we can call “bad” is Horde really being changed that much?
All Blizzard would do is stop the flip flop and own what the Horde did. Thats all really, there is no longer any Honor disclaimer or fine print… not that it really made sense.
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It’s ironic what’s literally happening around this post, in relation to nothing, to address your second point.
With the first point, I’ll say in general I’ve never expected a seamless, markless product of quality from what I expect from this game. Instead of pinching myself about the seams that made the story I like, I’d just enjoy the overall product. I agree with what you’re saying, but I don’t think it applies to the context of what’s being asked for from most of these dingbats.
I started playing a new character like a week ago. Am I just blowing your mind or something with the fact I’m allowed to stomp all over your Horde faction wearing your clothes? I am aren’t I?
People remember and want what they had when they started.
I’d be money on that you, and probably most of the “Horde has always been evil” crowd, started in MoP. With Garrosh as Warchief and the German Fascist metaphor.
I did not. I started in Cata (really, last three months of wrath) with Thrall and Stonetalon Garrosh (Heroic).
The Horde has not always been evil, and the past ten years run contrary to why I fell in love with this faction.
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Snipping this bit because I’ve seen this asked before, about people suggesting going the Saurfang route if you wanted to play a good horde character. At least, I think what I read out of it. I could be wrong.
What bugged me about the choice is that between Saurfang and Sylvanas, neither of them actually felt like a GOOD option to go with. Sylvanas’s was the obvious in-your-face bad option, and while Saurfang’s might have been (relatively speaking) better, I don’t feel like his option was all that good either. I know the game wants the horde player to sympathize with him as an old soldier tricked into committing another atrocity, but when the game takes a character whose primary personality was based around a “never again” stance and then…goes and does it again, I found myself frustrated because it felt like it took what made him cool and turned it into a lie. (Which might have been the point, given the 8.2.5 cutscene. But still)
But putting that aside, the story split comes after the fact of the horde doing a Big Bad, where the “heroic” choice is to just play along with Sylvanas anyway. On a meta level, I get that the two options were barely going to diverge since it was a last-minute decision, but your character in the story basically has to keep his head down along with the rest of the racial leaders until Saurfang, the one who semi-unwittingly helped cause these problems, does his off-screen heroics. And while these actions might make sense in a more realistic war story, it felt crappy for a hero fantasy game to meekly go along until you were allowed to play the hero in this aspect of the story.
I can’t help but contrast this with the Tyrande / Anduin division in 8.1. Admittedly, the Darkshore stuff had its own slew of things people complained about, but one thing that most people seem to appreciate (that I’ve seen) is that when Tyrande is told “it can’t be done,” regarding sparing forces for her, she denies that answer and proves that her and Genn’s people can go and do it anyway, letting them be the heroes in what should have been an impossible situation. From what I remember, there wasn’t anything like that denying-the-impossible for the horde side experience.
Edit: Holy crap these words, I thought my post was shorter than this.
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So its the other route. Every time someone criticizes your opinions on the Horde or its characters you immediately start attacking them as a person. Claiming that “They’re upset”, because your vision of the Horde faction is something that does not in any way appeal to them. So, you may not be a Troll, but you certainly are one of the single most toxic people on this sub.
Generally, my issue with the writing of the Horde is that we’ve been made a plot device to settup future villains and future expansions … then Blizz runs away from the consequences of that. Blizz kills off Horde reps regularly, or has them abandon and betray the faction, with little to no hint that they intend to build up replacements. They have also left both the faction identity and many of the Racial Fantasies in ruin. These aren’t small issues, and no matter how much Blizz might like using the Faction … building it back up has never been a priority for them. For over a decade now. Do you disagree that this is a problem?
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I am not saying they have always been evil.
I am saying after years of Thrall trying to make the Horde better he failed and Horde embraces old mistakes.
Maybe have an underground good horde club house in some dark corner of Orgrimmar for the nice Horde players.
So they can role play that. Lol it sounds kind of fun if they did that, would make me want to play the Horde more.
PS. I pronounce your name Bechamel. I hope you come to accept that.
Well, Saurfang does multiple heroics on screen. I have no idea what you feel like he’s not doing. I get it. I actually do not like the option to choose at all, even though it’s stifling I think it should have still just been a railroad, I still can appreciate like ‘hey! A choice!’.
Ive seen it all sidelined so that’s a Saurfang can be ignored/made to look dumb. But he was still the righteous answer. I don’t expect their to be even more alternative aspects to making this choice. Sylvanas is having dissent killed off, and when people openly defy her they go down. Saurfang made it a never again, in his final moments…again.
The difference is say between Tyrande, and Saurfang. Is one is meant to make a difference, despite what hill all of players are dying on.
Amusingly this isn’t too different from my own night elf character. He was a druid who fought in the War of the Shifting Sands and has been in the Emerald Dream ever since. He woke up thousands of years later to all manner of things he had no conception of and had to slowly adapt to the times.
In particular, his home was on Azuremyst. It is now buried under the Exodar.
I dunno if your character is completely impossible now, though. You could argue she still has jurisdiction over her night elven charges even when the bulk of the population moved to Stormwind. She’d then be struggling with keeping to her duties while likely getting obstructed by Stormwind’s own laws and policing forces. After all, it isn’t like Maiev felt her hunt for Illidan stopped once he left the night elven borders.
Hence why so many Horde posters are frustrated by getting the villain bat treatment. I basically couldn’t play my druids all of BfA and had to switch mains over this garbage.
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What do you think about an underground Horde society that tries to do good while the rest of the Horde embrace being evil?
Like the Alliance Warlock trainers being in secret room but this time its for Horde good-doers.
And btw being evil just means being Garrosh cata level bad. They got their rules of war but they are still warmongering with little mercy (unless the good club intervenes).
Horde attacks and Alliance defends. Rinse and repeat.
That sounds fun to me. What about you?
Take a quick review of the gatekeeping, name calling, and past experiences Droite. I’ve told you before, it’s just a coping mechanism you’re trying to put me through, for your own benefit.
Blizz is absolutely trying to inject characters into the Horde. I’d dare not even suggest that they would be trying to do more with them anymore. But I do hold hope they will do something to build up the Horde, not justify psycho, optic-obsessed resentful people.
The Horde identity is fine, maybe the racial identities are injured, but it can’t contrast with what the hero’s aims are.
I’d think you’d have to kill the vast majority of our remaining characters, and undermine the majority of our remaining Racial Fantasies to pull that off.
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Do I? Rest of your characters were perfectly fine with Sylvanas until Baine took issue with the mind control thing and Sylvanas turned on him.
If that didn’t happen it seems like the entire Horde cast of heroes would have stoodby Sylvanas.
So its not hard to imagine the Horde heroes just following along with the Warchief’s plans and goals.
The issue with that is that it’d functionally make a third faction that has to be written for. You couldn’t really have a “secret good guy society” while still doing the same evil guy quests as the greater Horde faction gets.
Also I actually quit playing for several years because I couldn’t stomach my characters taking orders from Garrosh by late Cata era.
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