Just like blood elves are! 
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Lets also be fair. The HElves/VElves have never been portrayed as overtly risky with their Arcane Practice. Not like the Highborne. They even took steps to protect their lands from exploitation and attracting the Legion before Arthas went to town. They are just Arcane Dependent. Their usage of Fel was one such avenue to deal with their massive withdrawel, and the majority of them rejected it. Hence the whole Keal’thas fiasco. Also, the VElves (especially Umbric) are massive hypocrites.
They used “Defense of Quel’thalas” to justify their dangerous research that heavily relied on the works of one of the nations greatest traitors Dar’Khan Drathir. Then when Rommath rejected their research, they “all of sudden” realize the Alliance is more worth and responsible to have it. On top of this, if not for Alleria, their entire population would have also fallen prey to their own toying with the Void AND Alleria herself is a living WMD for the Sunwell. And by extension, the entire Blood Elf population and civilization that rely on it. So … Rommath was proven entirely right in every way in his concern. They weren’t doing it for the defense of Quel’thalas, but their own obsessions. They are a danger to themselves and especially the BElves.
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That’s…actually a good point. It does say something about your craft when what you’re studying necessarily relies on the research of the person indirectly responsible for your own nation’s destruction…
I guess Lor’themar was actually right when he referred to the Void Elves as “traitors” at Lordaeron.
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Blizzard wrote a narrative that they thought was good. Fine. It’s bad, but whatever. But the reason you can claim that Blizzard spent more time, resources, energy, anima, whatever metric you want to use to justify your view, is because the Horde was (once again) both the narrative arc for the villain and a faction.
If that’s your argument for the Horde being something Blizzard really enjoys storytelling, then fine, have at it. Like I said, I hope you get to enjoy your faction getting both narrative arcs at once! It’s SUPER fun to follow a path that the entire time you’re also forced to hate yourself!
People need to stop repeating that tripe. Blizzard has repeatedly demonstrated that they think the Alliance is better than the Horde morally speaking. The Horde gets to actually have their leaders become purple-dispensing villains who drive the entire expansion narratives.
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I don’t know if their research alone is enough to brand them as traitors. But actually joining up with the enemy faction and going to war against your own would definitely do it, regardless of what they studied.
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Source?
- Did Anduin do anything other than lecture Greymane for trying to assassinate Sylvanas in Stormheim?
- Did Jaina get anything worse than a lecture from Saurfang for her role in assassinating King Rastakhan at Dazar’alor?
Yes, and then we get NPCs screaming, “The Horde started it, so war is justified! This peace will never last because the Horde will always be evil!”
You’re right.
The Horde player has yet to be given an exchange with a major Alliance character in which they’re allowed to feel heroic at the expense of the other faction.
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I mean, not necessarily on its own, no. But as the story goes:
- Umbric and the others study the Void
- They take their research to Rommath, and were chastised/rejected
- They then double down and not only ignore Rommath, but go on to peruse the research of none other than Dar’Khan Drathir—again, this is the traitor who literally sold his own people out to Arthas, thereby making the Invasion of Quel’Thalas possible
So yeah. They are traitors to their own nation and people.
Which makes the claim that “Void Elves are the true high elves because Alliance!” that much more disturbing.
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Not in BfA. I mained Alliance during BfA. You cannot make anything like the “Horde PC Shame Tally” for the Alliance PC in that expansion. You know what the Alliance got? “Our cause is just, our hearts noble” from the faction quartermaster.
Maybe you’re still sore about MoP, but that was four expansions/seven years ago.
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Exactly, the Horde in BFA are allowed to style on the Alliance at the start but when it comes the Alliance’s turn we’re not allowed to.
Nope, they’d be defending themselves if the Alliance were out to genocide them, which they are clearly not.
Seeing as the Alliance wasn’t planning on seizing Zuldazar, just making sure it was unable to help the Horde during the war then no.
From Alliance punishment, so if it wasn’t clearly implied.
NOT. FROM. ALLIANCE
I don’t care what crap they suffer because of their own idiotic leadership mishaps, the same way people would be left sour after Legion if we travelled to Argus and realised the Legion destroyed themselves before we could.
They aren’t out to police the world, just those who ally with their fricking enemy.
Nope, again, the Alliance taking back what is theirs or attempting to stop their enemy from continuing to harm them is NOT a consequence, the same way being forced to give money back to a bank you stole is not a consequence.
Destroying their navy? Not a consequence because that is what they needed to do to stop them from assisting the Horde.
Killing the king? Only done because he wouldn’t surrender willingly.
Killing their citizens? Didn’t happen unless a trade merchant took up arms against them in which case how are they any different from a soldier?
What would be a consequence is after Zuldazar was invaded the Alliance went ,“Let’s teach these dam Trolls a lesson” and slaughtered half their population now THAT would be a consequence.
Dude, we were barely allowed to win the one battle we had to win to label us the villains for the entire expansion … and into SLs frankly. A battle that we got stalled to a halt completely twice; required mcguffins and stupid to overcome; and one we were told we (the entire Horde combined) could never hope to win if both Malf and Tyrande were on the field at the same time. On top of 90 percent of their armed forces being conveniently away. We then proceeded to lose every single battle after that. I have no idea how you are classifying that as “style”, unless you only consider “stuff lost”.
And the reason the Alliance “doesn’t get to punish the Horde” mechanically is because BfA already punished the crap out of us and our playerbase. We lost three more of our most developed characters in our absurdly neglected cast. Four, if you count Jin, who’s unbelievably insulting death was a requirement to set this trainwreck up (and his death was recieved so badly they had to mcguffin him back). Our Faction Identity has been probably irreprebly damaged just so Blizz could use us as a plot-device and vehicle to settup SLs. And several of our core Racial Fantasies have been left deader than the Forsaken.
Long story short, the Horde was punished for BfA. Ruthlessly. Cruelly. In ways that will take years to even attempt to start fixing, even if Blizz was willing to (which the last decade has shown they aren’t). It just wasn’t the Alliance and its players that got to do it. But rather by the writers who continue to actively shame us for what they forced us to do to settup another future expac/villain. With clearly no regards to the after.
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Just gonna repeat myself for the noon crowd:
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Because one successful invasion in a two-week prepatch event is totally equal to changing the government of an entire faction for the foreseeable future of the game. 
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Vol’jin’s death was up there with Cairne’s for being criminally offensive. Cairne dies off in a book I’d argue many haven’t read, and Vol’jin dies to a gut stab. In the same expansion where King Chin nukes an ultra Fel Reaver in one shot, and gets offed by Gul’dan himself.
Starting to wonder if Shadowlands is someones pet project, and they had just enough power to convince the rest of the teams to rush it. About the only reason that makes sense as to why everything from Legion on has felt so… rushed
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Yup. The Alliance literally just finished blowing up the Zandalari navy. They weren’t coming for tea. It was self-defense in every sense of the word.
You mean, like, by destroying their infrastructure? Which they did. Yeah, the Zandalari should have just rolled over and bent the knee to military force that just destroyed their Navy and invaded their home.
Which is not true.
Again, not true.
And they have ZERO authority over the Horde and those who traffic with them (ie. The Zandalari at the time)
Undercity doesn’t belong to the Alliance. Saurfang didn’t belong to the Alliance. The Zandalari Navy didn’t belong to the Alliance. Rastakhan didn’t belong to the Alliance.
You say my definition of consequences is insane. But you are now saying that citizens of a sovereign nation are NOT allowed to defend themselves against an invading force that has already committed a massive act of aggression against them. THAT is insane and, frankly, quite dangerous to believe.
There were consequences, Alliance imposed. You just don’t like them.
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Funny, pretty much everything you’ve cited the Alliance as doing can be summed up in a single word.
It’s called FASCISM.
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They found that out later when they arrived at the tower, they didn’t know that he was also exploring the void when they started exploring it.
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And that wasn’t even the most insulting part. The insulting part was that Sylvie was already being treated like the Warchief of the Horde before Jin even hit the ground. From, as you said, a single gut wound from a Trash Mob. And this is the same Vol’jin who’s Troll Regeneration was so unbelievably potent that he was able to survive having his throat slit by a blade coated in poison meant to mitigate Troll regeneration. Then they had “da Sprits whisper” to him (turning him into Ner’zhul, as if turning AU Grom into that wasn’t enough one expansion before then) … despite the fact that his Patron Loa (that Jin is SUPER close with) hates Undead. And apparently Sylvanas herself, just like Jin did.
EDIT: They then proceeded to do nothing with Sylvie for the rest of expac, beyond her going into Stormheim on a personal errand. Where, btw, she pulls an homage to Arthas’ “New World Order” line; from the moment he betrayed and killed his father. But ONLY to the Alliance PC. To really sell to those paying attention that she was NEVER going to amount to anything positive for the Horde she was now Leading.
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Irrelevant; it would have been one thing if the knowledge that Dar’Khan Drathir had studied the Void had proven to be a deterrent: “Oh, maybe this isn’t such a good idea after all.”
Instead, Umbric and party literally did the exact opposite—they doubled down on Void research both knowing of and using Drathir’s research.
That is why they are traitors.
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How? Arcane and Fel work differently than Void.
Those are consequences. You need to double check what that word means.
Giving back stolen goods would be a consequence of theft (if caught).
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By then they were already banished, they only found out about him when they were already bannished.
So what else did they have to lose?
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