He’s a weirdo and I’ve had him blocked for months 
To be fair, at least he actually tried to propose something instead of trolling this thread like so many others.
I’m just trying to figure out where it’s going.
Ok.
There is a name for this narrative approach (trope?) but it escapes me.
This is what confuses me. If the Horde is confined to the Maw forever trying to help innocent souls where is the potential for development?
Unless I’m missing something that’s the end of a narrative and not the beginning of a new chapter.
@Ainhin, do you mind clarifying your position so I’m not misrepresenting anything?
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As a form of self-sacrifice? Yeah, I think so.
It’s not literally “hey do exactly this in order to redeem yourself” but rather an example of a path to redemption that involves actively helping souls that have been condemned to the Shadowlands with no expectation of reward, but rather because it’s the right thing to do.
Unless “doing things because it’s right even if it means immense self-sacrifice” is exclusively an Alliance theme?
If you want a form of redemption and atonement for the Horde that costs the Horde nothing then I think that we are misusing the word “redemption.”
No he’s fairly clearly saying the Horde should willingly fling themselves into Hell as the only method of “Atonement”. Go to Hell and stay there.
Like Jesus Harrowing Hell (that’s the name of the motif) without the later Resurrection and Ascension.
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Yes, that’s the premise of this expansion.
That’s what my characters are doing until the expansion is resolved, yes.
If you like that sort of thing, more power to you, but personally I don’t like the idea of the character I play canonically being put in a position where he needed to atone or strive for a personal redemption because if I had the available character autonomy, I wouldn’t have wanted him doing those things to begin with.
But as it’s kinda stuck that way anyway, I can’t bring myself to enjoy a redemption story coming off of a villain story I didn’t want in the first place. I feel like that’s the sort of thing you’d need to want as a character concept going in, instead of having the game master pull the rug out from under you with railroaded war crimes.
Before BFA, I thought Saurfang was a neat character, but I didn’t want to play as him.
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It sounds like the Horde needs to decide what it wants then. Does it want a redemption arc, or does it want to be told it has nothing to redeem itself for?
In my opinion the former has potential. The latter is shallow preening.
Ignore him, his notion of redemption is degenerate incoherent nonsense.
As I said at the start of this thread, it is not:
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The Story Forums (2021, colorized)
A very incredulous scream. Are the night elves still in Kalimdor, and Tyrande closing the rift in the Eastern Kingdoms? Hopefully this doesn’t spill over into Horde Savior of the Night Elves.
But sticking a knife in your back is good too.
Mostly.
She flipped the switch.
No.
<.<
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They’re super weird and Not Okay lol
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I mean, Ain has been very clear in his belief that this is the Alliance’s game, and that the only reason someone would play Horde is to be a contrarian edgy meme-lord to the Alliance. So it really shouldn’t be a surprise that most of his “solutions” for the Horde really boil down to “get them out of the way of MY story and MY game”.
In short, if we cared about the story … we’d be playing Alliance.
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I was operating under the assumption that the Horde actually wanted some kind of meaningful redemption given the thread’s title but I guess you can’t redeem a faction that doesn’t want it.
You sound like a bunch of kids who got caught with their hands in the cookie jar and, when asked what punishment they should get, respond with “we should have to eat cake and ice cream for dinner”
The Alliance obviously has a different definition of redemption.
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I mean, I don’t personally care so much about “redemption”. Its been quite some time that we all sort of came to the conclusion that that objective sort of impossible to achieve in any real meaningful way, so I’ll settle on rebuilding. If redemption happens as a byproduct of that, it happens, but it should not be the goal. As with the way Blizz used our Plot Device faction, that is potentially trying to fill a cup with no bottom. A waste of time.
Yeah the Horde’s seems to be “make me feel big and strong again, even if it means lying to me”
You checked out post #4 in this thread yet?
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It’s a great post, but I’m not really sure where it gets into “redeeming” the Horde.
Maybe people should clarify what they mean by “redemption.” And what is the Horde being redeemed for? If it’s for their actions in BfA, how exactly do they find redemption absent any kind of involvement from their victims?
Does “redemption” here mean exclusively redeeming the Horde in the eyes of the Horde? That seems like a pretty specious definition of redemption; the redeemed generally don’t get to decide for themselves when they have been redeemed.
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It’s not just about redemption but also rebuilding.
Also, my hypothetical is still a WiP.