How Can We Redeem/Rebuild The Horde (Actual Horde Edition)

Okay, haven’t read all 1600 posts, skimmed the first one. About to go to work, here are my thoughts.

First, the mechanism by which to reform the Horde already exists. In the form of their shiny new leadership counsel, and in the banishing of their biggest jerks.

So the question how is how to stop it from happening a third time? Well, alot of suggestions are made that maybe the Alliance takes a turn being villain batted and having their themes crapped on to justify the next faction conflict, but in my opinion that’s a pipe dream. It’ll never happen.

So the next time the Horde starts trouble, Blizzard simply needs to give them a believable motive AND keep it consistent/relevant throughout the expansion. Consider the three motives that the Horde had in BfA.

  1. He who controls Azerite controls the future!
  2. If the Alliance were to stage a naval invasion of Durotar, Orgrimmar would fall.
  3. The Alliance are dangerous and Jaina Proudmoore is a mad woman.

The first motive got tied to a game play mode that was not popular, and then forgotten. The third motive never materialized in game, outside of a few weird comments by Rexar. The second motive… almost works.

So using the simple idea that the Horde’s motive needs to be believable and consistently portrayed to drive them lets make some quick edits to the BfA storyline.

1st. Sylvanas and Saurfang agree that the Horde’s military situation looks dire, and it’s only the mercy/naivety of a small human boy that stops the Alliance’s warmongers from invading them.

2nd. Throw in a shared cut scene where Genn and Anduin have a similar conversation about how Orgrimmar is vulnerable. In the Alliance version, witnessed by the Alliance player in a war council, Anduin shoots him down adamantly and angrily. In the Horde version, conveyed by a Horde spy loyal to Sylvanas, Anduin still turns him down, but Anduin’s dialogue is less certain, and he seems far weaker in his convictions.

3rd. Saurfang and Sylvanas agree to a plan to destroy the Night Elf fleet to temporarily diffuse the threat while a permanent solution can be found. By maintaining the Horde’s motive and using it to inform their next action, you decide what they would reasonably do. For reasons of plot convenience, Sylvanas convinces Saurfang that the only thing that would compel the Night Elves to amass their entire fleet in one place would be an impending invasion of Darnassus via Darkshore.

4th. War of Thorns goes as originally planned. It climaxes with the Horde on Darkshore’s coast, but the Night Elf navy and army, having hastily reversed from their trek to Silithus, making their way back just in time. The Horde, having prepared explicitly for this, rains fire on the fleet with severity and potency the Night Elves didn’t imagine possible. Somehow, during this attack, the Horde’s weaponry finds its way turned on Teldrassil. The tree burns.

5th. The Alliance is horrified, Anduin was wrong, he gives over control of the Alliance’s response to Genn. The Horde is also horrified, what was meant to be a lightning fast attack and withdrawal, a simple attempt to rock the Alliance back on its feel to buy time, has turned into an atrocity on the level of the Burning Legion itself. There’s no time to investigate, the Alliance’s response is sure to be quick, and present the fullness of their might.

6th. Battle for Tirisfal happens as planned. The Alliance can afford to look a little less stupid when they fail to account for the Blight.

7th. With Tirisfal gone, the Horde sets out reinforcing the pass to Ghostlands and looking for ways to defend Kalimdor. They seek out an alliance with the Zandalari. Genn, having anticipated or learned of this, orders the capture of the Zandalari flagship in order to quelch that possible alliance.

8th. Horde rescues princess, sets fire to Stormwind. Genn, now having to account for the loss of the Night Elf fleet and the likely recruitment of the Zandalari fleet, supports Jaina’s decision to return to Kul Tiras.

And so on. The expansion becomes a chess game around the idea of a naval invasion of Orgrimmar. The Horde takes steps to stop it, the Alliance takes steps to facilitate it.

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I really like this. Minimal changes are made overall but the story takes on a whole new meaning. 10/10

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Another small update. The hypothetical is nearing completion.

:pancakes:

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What hypothetical?

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See post #4 in this thread.

:pancakes:

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inspirational :smiley:

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I hope at this point you see where I’m going with it.

:pancakes:

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A very incredulous scream. :imp:
Night elves in Kalimdor, the rest of the Alliance (except draenei) in the Eastern Kingdoms.
A very incredulous scream. :imp:
Or the cackling of a chicken. Suspicious “cro-ow”? Or “co-ock”?

Wut?

:pancakes:

I suspect that either the Eastern Kingdoms rift will be closed, despite the admonitions of the night elves.

An attempt to write the sound of a chicken that suspects something.

Or, if the rifts are closed at the same time, Azeroth will be torn in two. Or Azeroth will be born and defiled by the Void. And you will need to cleanse it.

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I see. That’s an interesting take on it. However, I have something different in mind.

:pancakes:

The only problem is that the entire cannon strategy revolves around the current timeframe seeing the alliance unable to launch a naval assault on Orgrimmar, creating a unique window of opportunity. The only reason Saurfang agrees that the horde must attack is because if both sides are allowed to rest on their laurels, the Horde becomes hopeless.

This is of course not real world justification for war. Real wars are more expensive than expanding the city to encompass the port, which could have done a lot to buy time for Orgrimmar to create greater conditions to ensure future defense, butit is the logic we have been given.

IMPORTANT UPDATE AND ALSO SPOILERS BUT LIGHT:

Thrall’s axe is called Dra’gora. This means “Draenor’s Honor”.

We know Mak’gora means Duel of Honor.

So Dra is the Orcish word for Draenor!! We finally have the Orcish word for their home planet!!! After 20 years!!!

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I thought we kinda knew that already when Saurfang explains his son Dranosh was named “Heart of Draenor” in orcish.

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Well unless they’re contractions. But that’s cool.

Yeah someone on the discord pointed this out to me but nice for it to be affirmed either way imo!

+1 small update.

:pancakes:

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By the way, this hypothetical that’s in progress is meant to span 2 expansions at minimum. I’ll point out the cutoff between the first and second (and third if I get there).

:pancakes:

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Incidentally, while I’m not sure how the Horde as a whole can be redeemed/rebuilt, I think that a lot of Horde posters are failing to see the big opportunity for redemption and atonement that’s inherent to the Shadowlands itself.

Usually, when you do wrong and innocents die as a result, you have to accept the fact that they’re gone and there’s nothing you can do to change what you did. That’s still true to an extent, but now we can actually go into the Maw and directly help the people who have been slain.

It might surprise some people but I do play a couple of Horde characters, and while I’m not a big RPer I do like to have some kind of concrete background for my characters that informs how they view event that are happening, and the status of my Horde characters right now is that they spend basically all their time in the Maw/Torghast

Basically, after being confronted with the Maw and the sheer magnitude of the horror that they were unwittingly involved with, they decided that they will take it upon themselves to free as many souls as possible, by way of both liberating the ones that aren’t lost yet, and by slaying Mawsworn (who are themselves innocent souls twisted by the Jailer.)

If atonement means that they condemn themselves to an eternity of wandering the Maw and Torghast, doing what they can to ease the suffering there (no matter how small it is in the cosmic scale of the Maw) then they have decided so be it. In effect, they have decided that the right thing to do in light of their actions is to switch places with the souls that they inadvertently condemned to the Maw.

Personally I think that the idea is conceptually more badass than anything that the Horde has ever done in the past and maybe it could spark some ideas for what the Horde can do to redeem itself.

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So… it would be bad@$$ if the Horde players willingly confined themselves to WoW Hell…

… am I missing something?

:pancakes:

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