Because she pretty much burned a whole country down with almost everyone in it for no reason other than “they might attack us”.
You think thats justifiable. If these are the sort of things you guys would do if you were wow writers i can only thank my luck stars because you would have driven the story into the ground worse than the current writers have.
Its called inspiration and not a one to one comparison as you people insist on doing and assign all the morally messed up problems from RL to this game.
It belittles the actual events that happened and makes blatant racist equivalency arguments. Stop it.
All the orcs that crossed over participated in that war.
Just because you want to feel good playing the Horde by making false comparisons “yeah Alliance was as evil as American politicians that threw their own citizens in prison for being different. Yeah! Thats totally the same thing!!! How immoral!”
I cannot believe Thrall, as a newborn child, participated in a war. Truly his might knows no bounds, he is a paragon of orcs, being able to be in a war without motor dexterity.
Can yall just ignore him, I promise he goes away after nobody responds to 5-10 of his sealion-ing messages.
This…makes absolutely no sense considering “us guys” have literally been criticizing the current writers for what they’ve done.
…that’s literally what I just said, that it’s not a one-to-one comparison, that it is inspiration.
Again, basics of storytelling.
I will not stop analyzing fictional material for real world value.
Because that is exactly what we are doing here; I’m pretty sure no one in this conversation is trying to belittle or understate actual human history.
What fantasy writing based on RL history does, ideally, is allow us to interpret/understand RL history in a new and unique/unusual way.
I’m not sure why you’re so resistant to understanding this.
*While being corrupted by demons and effectively sold into slavery by their own leaders (Gul’dan, Blackhand) and then coerced into being would-be conquerors by Doomhammer.
And then there’s the whole discussion to be had of what the orcs’ states were like when they were in withdrawal from Fel corruption—Jaina actually witnesses a mother with her child in one of the camps, for example…which, if you think about it, means the child was literally born in captivity.
It’s not a “false comparison,” and if you think politics never played a role in the Alliance of Lordaeron, then I have some required reading for you:
The word harem is derived from the Arabic ḥarīm, which means the part of a living space in a Muslim household reserved for women. That includes mothers, daughters, sisters, wives, concubines, servants, etc. It was a private place for the women to relax, not a den of concubines where all the women clinked around in gold chains and veils. Obviously men outside the household wouldn’t be allowed inside harems, so Western explorers just made things up about it.
The word in English can obviously still mean the other definition, that’s just the way it is. But it’s useful to keep in mind that it’s a misnomer.
Thank you for pointing that out!
Compared to other examples, I might say it is a step in the right direction at least, but it is good to keep in mind that China is huge and has probably one of the longest and most well-documented histories of any country on Earth. I guess it depends on whether that blender was indiscriminate or whether it at least tried to go region-by-region.
I hate to be the radical centrist on this one, but specifically relevant to exactly what I’ve quoted here and nothing else I think you’re both right.
Historical or cultural inspirations are acceptable tools of analysis for sussing out the meta-meaning of a narrative and the perspective of the author, BUT trying to make the comparison between the orcs in the internment camps and Japanese Americans in WWII is really hard to defend. When it comes to ONLY this example, I kinda lean towards Smallioz.
The comparison made like that is accurate on the surface, but I just think there are too many other factors to consider. The orc internment camps were a mix of POWs and civilians, whereas the Japanese internment camps were almost entirely civilians.
Beyond those points, and call me a wimp, but I just think basing a moral stance within a video game on a real world travesty is very rough. Maybe I’ve lost the plot, but I don’t really know what the comparison gains anyone other than emphasizing the stance “The Orc Internment Camps Were Bad”. It feels like making the classic Garrosh=Hitler comparisons.
Don’t get me wrong, drawing lines between real-world examples of fascism and the game as a form of metatextual examination is fine, but if it’s purely to support a particular stance of “this is bad” or “this is good” within the context of the fiction, that feels frivolous.
Contrary to popular belief muslim people don’t say “Allah! Can you believe this guy?” They also say Jesus.
Also jesus is in the Koran and is actually more holy than the prophet. Though they don’t think he is the son of god but just his messenger.
And yes I take the lord’s name in vain, don’t pray everyday, love bacon and believe it or not love drinking.
If Christians can call themselves and break every rule in the book and still be Christians then so can I.
The comparison issue.
I refuse to accept people making comparison for the sole reason to add complexity of real world moral problems to the game.
A poster earlier said Goblins were jewish inspired. How do you think that makes me feel if I was not killing Goblins in Dazaralor with a giant FLAME elemental in the hundreds? Now imagine I thought of those goblins as jews. I could never bring myself to do that quest again.
Thats why I don’t like this comparison thing. It makes the game less enjoyable when I start putting things in that context.
Saying “Christ” is pretty common form of exasperation in American English. You pick it up just by living here. I’m Jewish and I still drop the occasional JC or just “Christ.”
Seriously. They weren’t actually that interesting. Men just weren’t allowed inside and European travelers, mostly being men, concluded obviously it must just be a duck party in there.
So you don’t want videos games to be morally-complex and even * gasps * thought-provoking?
I would say it’s more accurate to claim that Goblins may have been inspired by the stereotype of Jews as “greedy, money-grubbing,” etc. The caricature, of course, was wrong and prejudicial, but it did exist at one point in time.
A similar thing happened with Lord of the Rings, with J.R.R. Tolkien comparing his Dwarves to Jews for the same reason.
I find it makes the game more enjoyable, provided you understand what it is you’re seeing.
I dunno, it makes it enjoyable in a different way for me. I don’t think everyone at Blizzard is actively anti-semitic, but I think there’s so much accidental comedy in writing a quest where you burn hundreds of goblins (a common anti-semitic caricature) in fire. It’s not horrible, but it’s bad enough you have to laugh a little.
It’s like seeing a meme on Facebook that says “Like if your not homophobic! It doesn’t matter if you’re gay, lesbian, bi or normal, love is love :)”
Gonna go out on a limb here and say that a multi-lifetime (as in, since the dawn of human history) of promoting sexual repression in society had something to do with that.
Most, if not all, of those stereotypes were no doubt promoted by “civilized” Christians vs. the “heretic” Turks, I’m sure.
And children. Thrall was put into the camps as a newborn baby.
That’s the point.
Like it’s not a comparison.
Golden/Story Team literally affirmed Garrosh is Orc Hitler and the post-MOP trial was based on the Nuremberg Trials, quoting verbatim the list of crimes lol
Like both instances are intended to tell the playerbase “Hey, the internment camps that are based on Japanese internment camps while Thrall’s rebellion is comparable to Nat Turner’s rebellion means that the Alliance was 100% in the wrong here” and “Orc Supremacy, that started as Horde Supremacy, is Fascism and wrong and the Horde was 100% in the wrong here”
And that includes “Daelin was racist and wrong because racism in response to tragedy is wrong”
That’s LITERALLY the point.
Because I remind everyone, because I don’t know everyone’s ages, WoW was being developed and released in the wake of 9/11 which radically changed the racial/ethnic tensions of the West.
Suddenly “illegal immigrants” became central points of discussion again, and “Muslim bans” were seen as reasonable by both parties and almost everyone in them, and that’s literally when both Homeland Security and ICE were created (they are not older than that! in case you didn’t know).
Blizzard writers somehow lost that point and implied Sylvanas was justified in burning Teldrassil during interviews.
The game used to be relatively good about being clear in its moral/ethical lessons you could walk away with, like any story or video game.
Goblins bare a superficial resemblance to antisemitic tropes.
But they’re obviously more a parody of Americans. They’re cut throat capitalists who worship guns and explosions. Their favorite passtime is a version of American football called footbomb. They’re the only race that’s been depicted as obese. And they have Jersey accents in case you couldn’t notice all the other stuff.
The entire leading up to BFA was “Horde is justified, Teldrassil isn’t what you think, it’s a moment of heroism, why is sylvanas there, why does the Horde feel like they need to do this” etc
By then all the Warbringers were likely done.
Meaning they really thought, genuinely believed, that Horde players would feel “proud” and “empowered” by Teldrassil.
Then the xpac launch and soon after all the intro questline was mysteriously removed.
Reminds me of those teen movies where the boys spy on the girls’ locker room and the girls are all casually walking around in their underwear and commenting on each other’s bodies.
