How Can We Redeem/Rebuild The Horde (Actual Horde Edition)

Lore Story Forum
4976

That´s a not so subtle dig to the players that STILL refuse to see the PCs for what they are: amoral mercenaries. Cause lt´s be honest we all kill everything ANd anything in this game for that fancy purple / title/ pet/ toy / mount, etc.

It doesn´t matter if she was the last or just another threat for her people, the point is the same: revenge will make youy blind and will make you become a menace for the very stuff you wewre trying to protect in the first place. This is kiddie simplistic way to portray that revenge is bad, period. Ofc exewcuted in the worst way possible.

This is a VERY OLD theme regarding literature… remember the Furies?

How, by magically saying they went back to their territory to defend from the big bad Alliance? Cause apart from making comments here and there about territory, you haven´t proposed sht regarding them, Kyalin.

Sure Kyalin, cause I loved to see the Forsaken fans that were close friends of mine be miserable at not even getting aknowledgment for their loses, at losing their racial leader, getting mocked for loving her for so long by the very game and getting threatened with a MHP wet dream esque character as the solution to “fix their race” after the villain batting.

How about you actually read what people posts instead of writting BS that only exist inside your mind?

Oh, this is about us NOT worshipping your glorified WArsong Gulch update… again.

Grown up Kyalin, your scenario wasn´t perfect as anything different from a battleground update and it´s pointless to make Horde players feel good about their faction, so next time don´t try to sell it as such, period.

Sure gal, cause pointing out how the narrative was constructed to point the disadvantages the Nelves HAD TO get to justify the WHOLE Horde merely managing to invade up to Darkshore is “me defending WoT”, pffff. Or me pointing out the only way the Night Warrior went was the expected “revenge is bad” kiddie narrative is somehow me DEFENDING it.

The only thing I see here is you putting words and imaginary motivations in people´s mouths just because you can hurt us while you can´t hurt the actual responsible individuals: the devs.

You come to say you “care” for the Hordies but haven´t been able to respond to Pellex inquiry and lash out like a colicky baby when we reject your Nelf biased scenarios applied to a global scale for the HORDE narrative… sorry but the only one sprouting double standards is YOURSELF.

3 Likes
4977

Boy do I love 4channel.

4978

Hell, you don’t even need to go that far. Remember Keal’thas? Remember who lectured him on letting himself being consumed by his need for revenge? Oh … right.

1 Like
4979

I don´t get the reference…? Not an american here, buddy. And quite old for the game too (I´m almost 40, in my country it´s embarrasing I waste time playing a MMO).

1 Like
4980

I am (happily) neither an american.

4981

The accuser, you mean?

4982

… really?

Also be prepared to get “heat” from the happily part of that comment… people nowadays is VERY sensible on internet.

Actually if you pay attention you realize the accuser chastises him for being PRIDEFUL, she doesn´t mention revenge anywhere.

Draven was the one that pointed how Kael´thas had no right to “get retribution” from Kel´Thuzad (as moronic as that ended up looking 2 secs after when Kel´Thuzad escaped).

4983

Again - how convenient for you. I can see why you like this so much. Your faction gets to evade consequences for its immorality on the back of the claim that rising to react to said immorality is itself immoral.

Wrong. Elements of that are actually in this thread. I’ve also stated and fleshed out how I believe the Zandalari can and should hit back as well. Why? Because unlike you I believe in a balanced game as something to shoot for.

That’s why your attempt to say that I don’t care about these things is a nonstarter. I have the receipts to show you that I very much do.

It sure looks that way when you’re bending over backwards to press this narrative that the Horde must have inevitably been capable of destroying the Night Elves and forcing them off of the continent, and then afterward being there to deny any and all proposals to restore the Night Elves back to a respectable position.

You reveal your bias when you do these things. Sure, you’re not a Garrosh fan, you’re not dabbing like Finninbas’s meme shows the Horde doing - but you are also a reliable figure to defend these manifestly unfair actions, and the manifestly unfair state of affairs. Asking me to “grow up” when you are so childishly and selfishly defending an unfair position purely because you don’t want your Horde to in any way get hit isn’t the most hypocritical thing I’ve seen on these boards, but it’s up there.

4984

I am from Europe.

and Fortunately I think the Story forum crowd hates living in america more than they hate me.

4985

Kyalin, I´m NOT the one writting the stupid story. There´s no “convenience for Ariël”, the only ones that got a CONVENIENT story were the devs, period.

Ohhh, so you are finally showing your true colors? How you indeed don´t give a expletive for the Horde and only care over them getting “their deserved consequences”?

But continue to say you care SOOOO MUCH for the Forsaken, Kyalin.

For the record: my actual convenience would be not to have been villain batted for a 3rd time so the devs could construct a wek sauce “neutral” expac featuring iconic Alliance figure heroes AGAIN, but alas!!! I´m NOT the one writting the stuff…

Wrong, you just believe in PvP faction conflict being the relevant thing to keep as the focus of the story, ergo YOUR convenience (YOU are the roleplaying PvPer, not me), you hypocrite. You don´t care over actually fixing the problems with the Horde narrative -like the lack of constructive development of their current cast, the lack of motivation for the Horde to sustain themselves in the narrative, the effects the villain batting have take upon the Horde fans, etc., you just care over having an adversary to pummel while you RP and nothing else.

Well gal, I do think it´s COHERENT to imagine a SINGLE race without their army would most probably then not suffer a defeat while they get ganged by the ARMY of 6 collective races. The contrary creates interesting questions like why haven´t the Nelves conquered Kalimdor if their civilians and one racial leader are more than enough to defeat a WHOLE freaking army made up by 6 races?

Saying this is WILDLY different than me saying I was thirsting for the Horde to kill the Nelves -the “motivation” you have tried, are trying and will continue to try to put on my shoulders while you inevitably fail all and every chance-. READ what people posts instead of making up “motivations” for them when you can´t find a good argument to defend your stance, period.

Have I said anywhere I opose you guys getting back your stuff?.. cause I clearly remember NEVER saying this kind of thing.

Did I point out how your PvP scenario was pointless for me to “cheer” as a HORDE player? Yes, cause I don´t think Orcs killing Nelves will make them look better, quite the contrary it just reinforce they are inmoral brutes that deserve to get killed en masse and nothing else in the wake of WoT.

YOU are the one fabricating imaginary motivations for other players and the one getting angry when people points to you how those motivations aren´t of their interest and don´t solve the issues we got thanks to Teldrassil, period.

I´m not defending sht, I´m just telling you as an ADULT that this was HOW the story went because THAT was the intention of the devs that WRITE the lore, no more and no less. And as an adult YOU will have to come to terms with that, just like I HAD to back in WotLK regarding the Forsaken treatment or HAD to a year ago regarding BfA´s making a mockery of the Horde resolution I got in MoP.

You have all the right to hate it, just like i did. What you DON´T have the right is to demand I accept your proposed solution or else, period. so yes, grown up cause you are not my mother to order me anything.

You are one of the fortunate ones in this world.

4 Likes
4986

That was a pretty good read, it’s nice to see conversation between people who really want to rebuild the horde.

1 Like
4987

Looking at feedback I took and slightly rejiggered the map, further breaking it down also into the geopolitically dominant powers across Azeroth. Some of them I had to sort of just… work out a name for as Blizzard never bothered to formally give one; they tend to ignore things like that sadly. A few are based on logical results of certain established relationships between leaders carrying out into marriage.

I then took and wrote descriptions for both Factions in a manner that does not use coding words like “Savage” and “Noble” that Blizzard loves so much.

  1. Kingdom of Stormwind (and protectorates) (A)
  2. Union of the Three Hammers (A)
  3. Kingdom of Gilneas (A)
  4. Commonwealth of Gnomanity (A)
  5. Kingdom of Kul Tiras (A)
  6. Forsaken Dominion (H)
  7. United Highborne Kingdoms (H)
  8. Tauren Tribal Confederation (H)
  9. Zuldazar Empire (H)
  10. Sovereign Territories of New Darnassus (A)
  11. Independent state of the Azuremyst Isles (A)
  12. Nation of Durotar (H)
  13. Bilgewater Cartel Holdings (H)
  14. Darkspear Chiefdom (H)
  15. Horde Allied Territories (H)

Major Geopolitical Powers of Azeroth

The New Horde (“The Horde”): The Horde began as an unlikely alliance of races seen as monstrous outcasts by the races of the Alliance, based in a mutual need for cooperation for survival. At first led in a form of “benevolent dictatorship” by its founder, the former Orc slave turned revolutionary Thrall (born Go’el of clan Frostwolf). As founder of the free orcish nation of Duotar, Thrall was seen as a wise and just leader who would listen to the leaders of the peoples under his command. Sadly, after Thrall abdicated his position, with no constitutional system or formal treaties in place to limit the power of the Warchief, it rapidly devolved into a form of military junta with client member states lacking any true representation.

The abuse of the office began with Warchief Garrosh Hellscream, who led the Horde into a war with itself over the ideals of purity and the Old Horde that resulted in revolt. The second abuse came when Warchief Sylvanas Windrunner led the Horde into the senseless and bloody Forth War for her own personal machinations, which resulted in another revolt, this time backed by the Alliance. Ultimately, Sylvanas abandoned the horde after a fateful duel with the revolt leader, High Overlord Saurfang.

With full backing of Thrall himself, the races of the Horde have recently overthrown the office of Warchief after these repeated and gratuitous abuses of absolute authority, becoming an intergovernmental organization led by a council of co-equal member nations known as the Horde Council. Merely months old now, the Council is young and untested, with many in the Horde unsure if this new form of leadership will truly be effective.

The Grand Alliance (“The Alliance”): The Alliance was born out of the ashes of the Alliance of Lordaeron, which collapsed during the Third War with the murder of its de facto leader, king Terenas Menethil II, and the following sacking of much of the eastern kingdoms by the undead Scourge. The Grand Alliance was built on the same basic foundations of its predecessor, anchored in a complex series of treaties, mutual defense pacts, and trade agreements aiming for the common good of all member nations.

While it is designed as a council of co-equals, The Human Kingdom of Stormwind has been a dominant force since its founding, along with the Dwarves who remain a close and long time geopolitical ally. The legendary Stormwind King Varian Wrynn led the Alliance as both Lord Commander of the Alliance joint forces and High King, the Leader of the Alliance. It is worth noting that the mantle of High King, while granting vast political clout, did not confer the sort of absolute power as that of Warchief—Rights granted by the treaties which bind it together mean all member nations retain sovereignty and the certain rights such as the ability to refuse admission of a new member nation into the alliance.

After the death of Varian on the Broken Shore his son, Anduin Wrynn, took up the mantles of King of Stormwind, Lord Commander of the Alliance joint forces, and High King of the Alliance. Young and inexperienced, he managed to lead the Alliance through the Fourth War, but not without mistakes resulting in fractures forming between Stormwind, the Darnassian Leadership, and the Gilneans who went with their king to the aid of the Kaldorei when Anduin refused to send Alliance joint troops to aid in the reclaiming of Darkshore—His focus was instead on retaking and holding traditionally human lands such as Southshore, and the long fallen kingdom of Strom, which now exists as a protectorate of Stormwind.

Recently, Anduin handed over the authority of the Lord Commander to the legendary High Exarch Turalyon. Following the abduction of High King Anduin, Turalyon additionally became Regent in Absentia of Stormwind. The future of the Alliance is uncertain, with much unresolved tension after the Forth War and its new Lord Commander remembering the Alliance of Lordaeron and considering the idea of reclaiming old lands now under control by the Horde.

17 Likes
4988

Dude, this is truly awesome. Not sure why you Blue Boys want to stay hands off with the Swamp of Sorrows (that place cant be that hard to clean out and use right)? But it looks great! Thanks for all the work!

4990

I got few words other than that looks fantastic!

I’d love to carve a bit of Northern STV for the Gurubashi to join in the fun Hordeside, but I know that’s a bit much at the moment. Otherwise this is a work of art.

Now give Mantid and Dread Wastes to Horde.

3 Likes
4991

I feel like that swamp would likely be a contested area. Theramore is a permanently magically unstable ruin, and its founder is now focused on rebuilding Kul Tiras and reestablishing a place of prominence in the Alliance, as it is the only Human Kingdom anymore with enough size and clout to actually contest Stormwind as the dominant human nation on Azeroth. Gilneas will take many years to rebuild its strength.

In time I can see the Kul Tirans expanding to reclaim the region for sure, but not just yet.

4992

Oh! I do have one small suggestion for the Northern part of EK.

It might be wise to gift the prior Scarlet Enclave territories to the Forest Trolls if we can get them to join. Its a nice little strip of coastal land with a comfy natural border on the western side, but more importantly it would unify the Hinterlands territories with their remaining northern holdings of Zul’Mashar, and Zul’Aman. It could be used as a little bit of an Olive Branch from the EK Horde to goad them in officially (along with securing the HLs), and placing the BEs of all people in between the two Forest Troll holdings might get a bit awkward lol! :smiley:

EDIT: Thats not to say the BEs cant move into the Eastern Plaguelands a bit and stretch their limbs. Just that particular little strip might find better usage to start ironing out the BE/FT relations issues.

4993

That makes sense, I waffled on rather or not Talanji would be able to finally unify the Troll tribes under Zandalari leadership again unlike her father, but I decided that might take some time for her to do.

I tried to catch most the forest trolls in the “Miscellaneous Horde” territory catagory, but yeah it for sure could be expanded a bit more.

2 Likes
4994

It may, but it may not as well. Trollkind is in a position ripe for unification after the assault on Dazar’alor. That wasn’t just an attack on the Zandalari, but on all Trollkind. If there was a time to band together to stand against a clear Alliance threat, it would be now and Talanji is 100% in the mood to try and push for that however she can.

Your map already covers most of the land they would need. Northern Tanaris covers the Farakki and the Hinterlands/Droite’s E. PL’s covers the Amani. With the Drakkari functionally extinct, that really only leaves the Gurubashi in North STV. After that it’s all smaller tribes who are either already in the area or who are smack dab in the middle of Alliance turf, like the Frostmane and Firetree tribes, who could easily be relocated if need be.

4995

Yup. Likely all the Northern Kalimdor Trolls are all toast at this point; The few remaining Dark Trolls of Winterspring and Hyjal were all killed off by the Twilight Hammer Cult and the Shatterspear tribe basically signed its death warrant with the stunts they pulled first with Garrosh and then during the 4th war. The others are mostly already in Horde dominated territory.

The Drakkari are of course extinct now, and remains of the Gurubashi Empire might be a bit dicey. Zul’Gurub is still even into the era after the 4th war dominated by Hakkar fanatics and well… Hakkar and Bwonsamadi are likely not on good terms right at the moment.

4996

Gurubashi and Drakkari are ethnicities at the end of the day, so Darkspear trolls are still “Gurubashi” ethnically (Darkspear being a subgroup of Gurubashi, like say New Yorker or Texan is a subgroup of USian). There is one Drakkari left, and I figure it could be like the Air Nomads in ATLA/ALOK, people can choose to become Drakkari to keep the culture alive learning from the one survivor.

2 Likes