At least we agree on that part. This is how i would put it:
In this scenario, the night elf would trade not even 1/3 but gain big part on three other zone where night elf used to live. I get that Ashenvale is a ‘‘sacred land’’ but i still don’t get why Ashenvale alone should be more important than 3 other ‘‘night elf zone’’ that the night elf aslo use to live aside from the fact that Ashenvale is prettier…
My argument above was even that Val’Sharrah is not an alliance territory but a CC territory.
Have you been listening to me?
the same reason why wars have been fought for Jerusalem for millennia, right up to the present day, and why there will continue to be wars over this stretch of land as long as it is important enough to people.
I never said the argent Crusade clear this land for the alliance, (cc is another part, he is not a “Alliance faction” but indeed a …a little bit neutral but in the end night elf faction)
Val’sharah is clearly NOT a neutral territory. I got spit on enough there as Horde to know that by now. The CC may operate out of it, but my god its an NE zone. With rich Kaldorei history, and even a friggen Gilneas settlement. And I saw you’re arguments on the Argents, and it was total BS. You truly are wielding neutral organizations like a cudgel for YOUR Alliance convenience when discussing these hypotheticals.
In this scenario, since Highmountain is Horde, Valsharah would be Alliance.
Suramar is Horde, but the outside of the city and Moonguard base is Alliance.
My argument yesterday was and still is that if an Alliance/Hordes citizen decides that they want to live in the territory and under the protection of the AC, they become …citizens of the AC and no longer Horde or Alliance.
I don’t see where this is “pro alliance”.
Suramar needs land to survive and haven’t the remaining moongard members even joined the nightborn?
Alliance players are allergic to fairness and equality and it shows. They want no scenario in which the Alliance isn’t the remaining sole super power that holds dominion over Azeroth. Just admit you want the vanilla status quo back.
Because you know damned well that the only people who would be open to doing that are largely HUMAN Light practitioners, as the Argents still very much are a Human Light Practitioner organization even now. With the Horde Light wielders essentially being thrown into their ranks and completely homogenized into those sorts of themes; with almost ZERO representation of their own belief structures. Not to mention, BfA actually did create a rift with that Group. With the Alliance Paladins under Turalyon at Arathi bearing Silver Hand tabards.
The SILVER HAND have picked a side.
But these people would not be members of the Alliance, they would still be members of the AC. You always say someone shouldn’t judge every faction by its race, YOU are doing that right now.
The AC turned into the Silver Hand. And the Silver Hand fights for the Alliance in the Stromgarde warfront. Under the command of Turalyon. Stop being ignorant.
I just have ONE (wait, actually two) problem with this list:
Why THE HELL are you mentioning Aethas? No seriously Droité, he´s a meme we deffinitely DON´T need like at all… also, putting him there is basically giving a blank pass so the devs continue to ignore Rommath to use Aethas in contrived “neutral” scenarios involving Dalaran.
As far as I´m concerned Aethas et al “Sunreavers” begging to be accepted back again into Dalaran AFTER the Kirin Tor did nothing while the Silver Covenant tried to murder them without due process says everything regarding their actual commitment to Quel´thalas (also about the lack of self esteem and dignity)… put blue/purple eyes on the NPCs, say they renounce to any claim on Quel´thalas to become permanent fixtures of the Dalaran Kingdom whose only condition is they will never attack their former kingdom and let´s all move on form the bad joke they represent Horde side.
The second problem is why aren´t you mentioning Ariok with all his amazing popential regarding Oc / Mag´har Orc link?
Erevien is always gonna Erevien, but I certainly can agree that Kael´thas will beat at least Aethas any time of the day. ANYONE would.
Well man, it´s funny when you don´t hide the blatant double standards in this rationale. You don´t want the Horde to get the Plaguelands but I don´t hear you saying anything regarding Nelves kicking out Horde from Winterspring for example… and you lobby for “neutral” CC to keep Desolace, ergo the “fair” map in your mind has Alliance and Neutrals with more territories than Horde; somehow that doesn´t seem like the actual deffinition of “fairness”.
Just stating the facts. The current character cast the Horde has is trash. I firmly believe we can do better then that.
I wasn’t even talking about Winterspring, or did you hear me talking about Winterspring in any way, so stop with your “GOTCHA” arguments, which are false to boot, it’s just explicitly about areas held by Neutral factions in general, I even brought up Desolace as an example where the CC ,not the Alliance, the CC operates, or Val’Sharrah, but yeah, i got it, i dare to TAKE Things away…~…from both faction, but I´am truly alliance biased …XD
Taking ruined characters and pretending nothing happenes will NOT fix the issue of the Horde character cast being underwhelming… only developing the underwhelming BUT not yet ruined cast will improve this issue Horde side.
The most you can do with the characters you propose is to use themn to IMPROVe the living replacements, no more and no less.
EXACTLY, you didn´t say "well Droité, considering I´m againts the Horde getting Plaguelands I think the map kicking the “neutral” Steamwheedle is wrong; also Moonglade should be purple cause CC is neutral. No, when the changes benefit your bias, you stay quiet and say nothing. The only times you cry like a colicky baby over “the territories of the neutrals” is when those territories GO HORDE.
Next time try to be less obvious.
The usual M.O., are you truly surprised at his stance?
So … rebranding? A classic Alliance trope. But you really think a Human Light practicing political entity being filled with ranks of Alliance races, operating off of what is still seen by many Alliance MHPs as their manifest destiny to reclaim would be acting in a truly neutral capacity? Or would they truly be an Alliance affiliate wielding a cape of neutrality to protect them?
And AGAIN, the status of the Argents themselves is very murky. With the Silver Hand aligning with the Alliance officially during BfA. They may have some ranks enough to field the Argent Tournament grounds in ICC, but from all indications they are a shell of their former glory as an organization. With the only Horde race representative we’ve seen wearing strangely, an Argent Dawn tabard.
You can’t fix what was broken from the start. If you want real imrpovement you need to turn the whole table and get back to the roots. Just take a look at which time the Horde was at their peak power and work it up from there. That is the only way to deal with the issues the Horde faces.
So your argument is that the AC would only be a preparation for the Alliance to take back the territories by merging with the AC?
I would argue that that is the recipe for it yes.
They may initially have fully neutral ambitions, but the more Alliance races join their ranks the less those ambitions will matter. Eventually, they will rejoin the Alliance in some political capacity. So, truly, at this point, either the Argents and CC are truly working in neutral capacities and shouldn’t have a problem with the Plaguelands or Desolace falling politically under Horde control (so long as the AC & CC can keep their autonomy to do what they do). Or, they aren’t working in a neutral capacity, and are using neutrality as an excuse for Alliance leaning objectives and ambitions. Which makes them enemies of the Horde, and optional ones at that (since OUR Light and Life Practitioners’ are more than capable of doing the work in those regions themselves).
Exacvtly Erevien, ergo why putting character that were RUINEd from the start -like Zul´jin, who was one of the villain reps of WC2- is a massive waste of time. This basically needs the retconning of the whole freaking game since Vanilla and maybe even parts of the RTS.
Your idea fixes nothing.
Yeah I think the story should be honest with itself class-faction wise:
Trueshot Lodge is a Horde organization in Horde territory
Cenarion Circle is an Alliance organization in Alliance territory
Earthen Ring is a Horde organization in Horde territory
Black Harvest would go Horde
Argents/Silver Hand would go Alliance
Conclave would split up, Church of Light is Alliance, Cult of Shadows is Horde
Dalaran/Kirin Tor is Alliance
Etc