Yeah, that was my point. A lot of old territory was retconned into being gilnean. I was agreeing with you. 
He was one of the original wolfcult members who sacked Gilneas with Ralaar. I think he’s a kaldorei worgen, considering he’s one of the few feral worgen who maintained his intelligence. I could be wrong though
he is…ähm, a gilnean, as far as i remember.
But i´ll give you that, its exist a theory of him and his pack 
- It is presumed that they were in some way allied, subservient to, or affiliated with Alpha Prime and his Wolf Cult but following Alpha Prime’s demise, the Bloodfangs became independent.
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Kinda weird for the Gilneans to accept what’s basically the furry cult of the damned, come to think of it. I don’t think you see any forsaken running off to rejoin the scourge, do you?
Edit: Except Sylvanas lol thank you Shadowlands
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Most of the worgen now are gilnean and NOT wolfcult members though.
A lot of the old guard was hunted down and killed through the years.
Didn’t Ivar hop a boat over to participate in the Darkshore warfront alongside the Gilneans? They can’t hate him that much. I get “enemy of my enemy” and all but he and his group basically ruined their lives as much, if not moreso than even the forsaken.
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Well, him and his pack mainly went to Darkshore to pick a fight with the forsaken, and kaldorei were kind of Eh, they’re willing to help where the alliance wasn’t. It’s not really a hatred or trust thing, more of a alliance of convince thing, you know?
Common enemy and all that. Ivar does consider the Forsaken his Blood Enemies after all.
Fair! I thought I had gotten Highmountian as red, I meant to make Odynland off in its corner purple.
I set Un’goro as red with the idea that the Horde might try pulling lumber from there instead of Ashenvale.
I do not entirely think Dustwallow has much of a defense given Theramore is a magically irradiated ruin, and its former leader now rules over Kul Tiras. But, perhaps it might be best to set it as purple yeah.
I know that you and many night elf fan wouldn’t be happy but i would prefer the eastern part of Ashenvale to be horde since it is the horde capital backdoor. Something like just the part east the river close Raynewood retreat. On the other hand, i would give most of Stonetalon (the western part), nearly all of desolace and the western part of feralas to the night elf. The horde would have the east part of Stonetalon, Mulgore and the east part of feralas, thousand needle, the small east part of Ashenvale and Azshara as border who would all surround Orgrimar.
I want the Worgen to have Gilneas back so bad but to be honest, Worgen have nothing to do with Silverpine. In lore, the worgen hide behind the wall and abandon that zone since a while. In game, Silverpine is a forsaken questing zone only that worgen player never had to set a foot in.
I can get being hillsbrad being split between forsaken and worgen while highland would be spill human/dwarf vs forsaken/forest troll.
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I dunno, I’m trying to avoid obvious contention points that clearly exist solely to be contentious.
Like, with Stromgarde and Gilneas rebuilt, and Crowley’s territories North of the wall around Ambermill, there is no way in hell the Forsaken should be able to hold onto parts of Hillsbrad or Southern SP. Nor would it be practical for them to. And Aerie Peak has always been a weird location, not just for the Alliance but for the Wildhammer (their ancestral territories are way to the South). So if Magni is right, and the Old God corruption of the world is on its way out, they have two full zones and their home to reclaim and reunite. Especially now that the VElves, LForged and DIrons can help. The Plaguelands are just way more important for the EK Horde.
As for Ashenvale, truly. Feralas and Ungoro would more than make up for any Lumber we’d get out of the western fringe of Ashenvale. Especially with Tauren/Troll oversight to ensure longevity and replanting of those resources. It would also cost less Horde lives to claim and hold. And the Southfury plus Bilgewater/Barrens defenses are more then sufficient to defend Orgrimmar. We really should get out of that forest if we can secure those two major ones to the south in any meaningful way.
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To be honest i don’t care about the lumber, i just hate the idea of having the alliance one catapult away from the horde capital city. I know that Org west mountain is bigger than in game but still, i think that horde, like alliance are already allowed to, should be able to walk/fly around its capital city without feeling threatening by the other faction.
As for SP, its just that this zone have always been a forsaken one and having the worgen getting all of it would just undermine the existence of that wall. While i would like for both faction to be able to have many zone connected with many race to help each other, having Gilneas behind a wall fight on their own behind it make it more interesting.
And for the whole ‘‘how to devise the faction territory’’ thing, i just thing that it would be more interesting to have it being case by case for the zone instead for just making it north/south like your suggestion would make it on both continent. Also, WoW will always be a horde vs alliance thing know matter what we want so i would prefer to have many territory skirmish left and right instead of devise everyone until blizzard decide that they want a pvp them expansion and go out of their way to make a other Bfa mess.
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Teldrassil says hello. Besides - super long range nuclear catapults that trivialize geographical barriers are the Horde’s thing.
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Remember that i was talking about the HORDE capital city, not only a racial capital city. Last i remember, Teldrassil was never the ALLIANCE capital city but only the night elf capital city.
And yet we needed to walk trough many enemy zone in other to finally be at range with those super long range catapult. If Ashenvale become all night elf, they wouldn’t even need to walk in enemy territory and would only need to use normal catapult…
I apply the same standards to capital cities in general - and Teldrassil put the “too close” argument to lie.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
The super-long range nuclear catapult thing was further, a joke. In reality, artillery, certainly medieval artillery, does not have that sort of range. Orgrimmar would not need to worry that the Night Elves would somehow be able to angle artillery such that it would scream over at least one mountain barrier and a massive river gorge to somehow hit Orgrimmar - any more than those in Ashenvale would have needed to worry about Saurfang’s army walking over said barriers on their way to Ashenvale, which they of course didn’t do.
Plus, if you really wanna argue HORDE capital city. The solution is easy. If the AU Mag’har are allowed to ressettle in Desolace (they’re good with fixer uppers, especially if the Botani we unleashed fester in Maurodon), and the Horde is allowed to move south. Then … Thunderbluff does kind of make sense for the Horde main capital with it having such a central point on the continent. Simple enough solution.
And with the EK Alliance moving North, then IronForge is the most centralized Alliance city on that continent. Especially if we are talking moving the Wildhammer back to rebuild/reclaim Grim Batol and the Highlands. Gets us away from Human Potential for abit I’d say lol! And give Dwarves and Tauren some attention.
Teldrassil doesn’t put the argument to lie… Teldrassil just show that dev can be stupid and that’s all.
The argument isn’t about Org being destroy but about Org feeling threatened for the rest of Wow life. We all know that Stormwind and Org won’t ever be destroy but at least Sormwind really feel like a alliance fortress while Org would nearly just feel like a out post… This is the basic of war, to not have the principal city/base being so close to enemy.
That would be the solution if we didn’t knew that Org and Stormwind will always be the faction capital city. Unfortunately we know that moving the capital is just a dream so we can at least ask for better scenario in that situation. And as for the botani, i thing them being in the small east past of Ashenvale being our unite to stand against the night elf would make for way cooler skirmish than the night elf vs orc that always feel anticlimactic.
If you’re going to talk about the basics of war, an appreciation of geography should be among them. Otherwise you end up doing things like fighting Russians in mountains in winter with cardboard soled shoes, then fighting the same battle over the same mountainous river valley fourteen times with a general who can only be considered your equal in that you’re both regarded as being equally boneheaded, culminating into being turned into a meme by the history community.
Trying to fight a war through a river gorge intersected by a mountain range would get you nothing less.
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Only if you don’t have any bridge, flying vehicle/mount, soldier capable of climbing mountain aka night elf/worgen and if the enemy is stupid enough to hide behind the mountain letting you all the time you need to settle pass the river… Which is exactly what this would be.
On the other hand the horde could also just use a part of Ashenvale to put unit and outpost which would let them place to fight and time to react if the enemy decide to attack. And even if you lose that battle, you still have other battle fight before the enemy get to your civilian.
Comparing one mountain and one river against the agile night elf/worgen to having to walk mile and mile and mile while not being use to cold is to be honest one of the worst war comparison ever…
You have to find a way to build this bridge first - and if climbing to reach your opponent was so easy, you wouldn’t have the historical record that we have on trying to fight in mountains - yes, even in the modern era when we have things like airplanes that should be able to go over the mountain.
Do you know why Conrad Von Hotzendorf is a meme these days? Because he didn’t appreciate both modern war and the realities of fighting in mountains, and fighting in mountains sucks.
Do you know why most of the big European wars went through the Northern European plain? Because fighting in mountains sucks.
Do you know why the Italian campaign in World War 2 stalled out despite starting a year earlier than the French campaign? Because fighting in mountains sucks.
Do you know why Afghanistan is called the “graveyard of Empires”? Because fighting in mountains sucks.
Do you know why geopolitical interests to this day often come down to expanding until the nation reaches a defensive barrier like a river or a mountain range? Because fighting over these areas sucks.
Sucks to the point of being impassible - the defenders are given immense advantages and thus these features are sought for their defensive character. Why does Russia want to push West for instance? It’s to eventually anchor against the Carpathian mountains. Why will India and China probably never get anywhere in a land war? The Himalayan mountains. Etc., etc. on and on.
The Southfury river gorge involves BOTH massive cliffs and a wide river. That’s impassibility times two - and in the history of the region, quite wisely, no power has attempted to launch an attack over this gap.
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First: Building a bridge should be nothing for the druidist race. Then, climbing a mountain should once again be nothing for both night elf and worgen. That is only if they are stupid enough to attack the day.
Second: on nearly all of your example you forgot to mention ONE thing. The enemy main city/target WASN’T literally in that mountain. Yeah fighting in mountain is crap if you have to continue over and over and the defender can just retreat to the next mountain.
Launching ONE surprise attack in a mountain is far from being impossible. And in what you propose, if the night elf win the attack, it over, the end, Orgrimar is lost with all the citizen that couldn’t left because of the lack of time. There is no ‘‘retreat’’ when your only battle ground spot is your city. That why you always, ALWAYS need some territory between your first conflict spot and you most important city with the most civilian in it.