I mean it’s the opposite: MU Orcs lost their clan heritage due to the post-war subjugation and post-corruption unification via Thrall’s abolishing the Clans for them, much like how the African Diaspora in the US does not know exactly what peoples/tribes our ancestors belonged to outside of speculation based on cultural artifacts that survived (folklore, religious practices, aesthetics/clothing, food, customs, etc).
MU Orcs are a Diaspora in that capacity.
But that reality and choice comes with anxiety and tension, especially now that we have the AU Mag’har with specific tribes surviving as such, unified as clans.
So we have, for example, MU Orcs in the Cleft of Shadows who are Fel and Shadow using formerly-Shadowmoon Orcs, and you have AU Orcs in their hold who use Arcane and Elements and are “original” Shadowmoon Orcs.
We have Thrall who is a Frostwolf Diaspora who was partly taught to be an orc proper by a Warsong Clan member, and we have Gre’yah who is a “real” Frostwolf who has led all the varied clans under her.
That tension should be explored, but MU Orcs shouldn’t reclaim.
Because MU Orc self-understanding as Clan-less diaspora, of their people as their unified clan brought together by both corruption and subjugation, is important to their narrative.
Because Thrall and the MU Orcs agreed with that plan, agreed with the sustained abolition of their clans for the sake of Orcish diasporic unity.
Mag’har joining the Horde doesn’t mean everyone is just going to join up with them.
It’s like expecting White Latinos to identify as Spanish and claim being Leonese or Galician, or Black Caribbeans to identify as Nigerian or Ghanaian and identify as Yoruba or Ebo or Akan. The former renounced the possibility ancestrally during the independence movement and subsequent generations choosing to construct a nationalist corpus, the latter had that possibility taken from them through chattel slavery.
Ethnic identification is a bilateral relational dynamic, who you claim and who claims you.
Thrall and the MU Orcs have chosen to not actively claim their clan, and so reaffirm and share in each other’s traditions as orcs as a whole, as a product of their joint corruption, joint subjugation (under both the Legion and then the Human Camps), and joint liberation from both magical and material slavery.
Greyah and the AU Orcs have sustained their clan structure and to unify through their clans because of organized resistance, devoid of that history of corruption and en masse subjugation.
Taking away or undoing that dis-identification of the MU Orcs is bad for the narrative.
These two points don’t follow, I also feel like you’re filling in a healthy heaping of headcanon as to why the clans went away, which again doesn’t explain the continued persistence of the Warsong Clan. I think that this claim of them going away due to demon corruption and the attempt to tie it into colonialism and its effects is also pretty far into left field. It doesn’t get me to why the clans are bad or had to go away - or why Orcs would choose to give them up, particularly with the Mag’har now being integrated.
I want an explanation for why bringing back clan identification for the MU orcs is bad for the narrative, not simply a statement that it is on the back of what Thrall had done in the past.
They do follow. I’m literally saying Abolishing The Clans for Orcish Diasporic Unity is important, and taking away and undoing that Dis-Identification of their Clans (ie Abolishment) is Bad.
Because diversity of racial motivation is good for the narrative, inherently, because racial meta-homogenization is bad.
It was Thrall’s idea it was good and necessary to abolish the clans at the end of the war, once everyone was freed from both slavery and Magtheridon, most everyone agreed, followed him, and so here we are. The Warsong and Dragonmaw did not. This allows for, and has allowed for, intra-Orc tension and cool storylines.
Why do you think it’s important the MU Orcs backtrack their prior decision?
First off - is this the loyalty test again? Are you upset that I haven’t rerolled Horde? That’s tough. I’m allowed to have opinions on other things and have multiple interests while still representing one.
Okay, at this point I’ve got to ask for some actual citations here, because I remember none of this from Warcraft 3. I do recall the creation of a unified banner and the ideology of a unified Horde, but I didn’t see anything in there - some claim that we’re abolishing clans now because they’re for some reason a representation of demonic slavery under Magtheridon (the clans pre-dated him - if anything, adopting them again is a defiance of demonic domination).
I don’t see how you can say this when you are at the same time arguing for racial homogenization.
No but I don’t trust your motivations to alter a fundamental identity of MU Orcs. But your immediate defensive paranoia while refusing to actual answer why you think this change is important (or good) is telling lmao
It’s in the book my dude.
??? The MU Orcs are unified as one people, the AU Orcs retain clan structure. This is different, and the former has been as such as the core narrative for the entirety of WoW’s history.
It’s the result of people claiming that I can’t make suggestions because of the color of my background, and demanding that I demonstrate fealty to the Horde before I start talking.
Which I find to be petty, obnoxious, and elitist.
Because I think that individual clan identification would be more interesting and would allow for a more diverse presentation of Orcs. Rather than being one thing under the Horde, their practices and culture could be explored and manifested in a number of different ways.
You have the Mag’har for that, or for the general “Tribe/Clan Division” motif you have Tauren and Trolls. So why should the MU Orcs be changed into that as well?
I explained why in the post above, and the introduction of the Mag’har into broader Orcish society I would think would encourage more orcs to look into identifying with clans again.
Because you suddenly have a bunch of people running around who DO identify with clans - clans that many of the Orcs that we’re talking about either directly came from or can trace their lineage to in their own timeline.
And why would their presence suddenly make them feel the need to throw the past few decades of cultural and political ideological shifts out the window to re-claim/re-identify with them? Especially given a majority (except the Warsong and Dragonmaw) of at least one full generation of Orcs, like Thrall, were raised without that cultural identity?
Given the ideological twists the Orcs have been through, I don’t see a compelling reason why not. If there was a particularly strong identification with Thrall’s ideology, I could see that, but that ideology was rejected by the Orcs per The Shattering in favor of what Garrosh was selling - which was very much tied into one particular clan’s identity. Since then, I haven’t noticed a particularly strong re-adoption of it, especially when we get to BFA.
This conversation, however, does not answer the question of why it’s not interesting or why it would be “bad for the narrative”.
I don’t see where in a manner that I have not already addressed. Unless somewhere in that word salad about comparisons to colonialism there was some hidden meaning that I need a decoder ring for.
Your other reply doesn’t address my response either. So I guess I’ll have to ask other people why bringing back the clans is necessarily bad since I can’t get a straight answer from you.
