I went back through the first few hundred posts and am still wondering how some people jumped to the conclusions that they did.
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Wasen’t Talanji using death magic? She is worships Bwonsamdi now, or is at least bound to him
Well, it depends on how Blizz uses those Cosmologies. For example, I fully expect that Blizz will want to get back to something more familiar with the next one. Which I’d wager is Light. So, conceivably, if the Light comes to us … especially while we’re offworld with SO MANY peaceniks (like, seriously, even Feathermoon and Menethil are in the SLs atm), there is some potential for growth. In a very, pressure turns coal to diamonds sort of way. But for it to work, the Horde people are going to have to take some serious hits to ensure the best environment for that.
Its why I am partial to the Lightbound as a notion, because their message of “saving the evil races from themselves” is something that would resonate with a not Mary-Sue Blue Faction. Especially after BfA. So, if the Lightbound add their forces to the Alliances, well thats quite the pressure situation. And that could really put some developmental fire under (at least) Lor’themar and Rokhan (as they’re holding down the EK and Kali forts atm), as well as Voss and Geya’rah (as they have personal relevance against the Light).
If we can somehow luck out enough to get Thrall, Jin, AND Baine some damned development to offset their deficits before we leave the SL we might be in OK shape to focus on those other four. And even Calia (if she gets a bit of a familial arc in the SLs) can benefit from returning to find her new people she was supposed to be getting to know being on the cusp of the breaking point. With Voss holding the line against the LB/Alliance (and things getting twitchy with the LB on the Alliance side around then). Giving us (what I see) as a necessary rift between Calia and the Alliance as a Faction (even if she maintains positive relations with Anduin & Jaina).
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We paid our dues. We more than paid our dues.
This premise is wrong. Gantrithor is just upset at the notion of the game having to cater to more people apart from him, and Droite is inventing things about what she hears about so that she can reject proposals out of hand. Neither stance is reasonable or fair.
Can you show me the raid or the dungeon that I proposed?
No? I didn’t think so. Quest content designed to support PVP objectives in Warsong Gulch is not a PVE vector in the way that the content that the faction war was set up to support in recent years was.
As I said, a job is not a lifetime annuity, and I think you’re in lonely company if you’re arguing that Ion, Danuser and Golden are stellar figures who should continue to guide the writing.
PVErs at the top echelon do this too - but I explained to you already why I’m confident in stating that the population as a whole pays attention in some fashion to the story, and why stories are of increasing importance in games in general.
I really can’t see this as anything but “no, Night Elves are not allowed to have meaningful resolution, ever”, and I can’t see that as a reasonable answer. Sorry Droite, I don’t like being thrown under the bus, and I’m not going to accept it.
Not one bit.
If thats how you’re going to take it, fine … you do you. But you taking it that way (to every Horde posters discontent with your suggestion it seems) really does suggest that your PvP thought experiment really was more about your two agendas, then it was about rebuilding/redeeming the Horde. No matter how much consideration you put into it, that latter goal was only considered so long as it remained confined with the need to fulfill the NEs need for resolution AND supporting PvP on a story level. It didn’t really matter if those latter two goals threatened to undermine the Horde rebuilding element.
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Which again is a loyalty test - an insane, unreasonable demand to put on anyone who is contributing to a set of suggestions.
I do not need to switch factions for you in order to make suggestions, and you should not get to demand such.
I have been giving this some consideration the last little bit, and I feel like to effect true change, it has to start at the source of inspiration. The story development team has been strongly drawing on WC2… and even WC1 era themes which are not really appropriate for the modern story. I suspect a lot of it might be out of a misguided sense of nostalgia for orcs vs humans because it always seems to boil down to that:
The Savage Orcs (and Friends) Vs The Noble Humans (and friends)
That sort of reductionist thinking makes it really easy to write, but it only results in a caricature on both sides. Neither side really grows, or even can grow, so long as that is the mindset they remain locked into.
I feel like they need to aggressively go after coding they have built in their stories as well, like WoTC has been doing in D&D for their stories and even race design.
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On the topic of the other pantheons, there CAN be a few ins to Life at least. The Trolls have a way in through the Loa, specifically minor characters like Loti. Vol’jin is a possibility as a newly ascended Loa, which at least cracks the door for Rokhan or Gadrin.
If An’she is a member of the Life pantheon, that gives potential for Baine/Aponi. Although, this would make more sense in a Light Pantheon. Faol is about as neutral as it gets there, so he’s not an awful pick for leading the charge at least. Sadly, where he goes Calia is sure to follow (puke).
Chaos, yeah we’re cannon fodder for sure (Forsaken, BE, Nightborne, Orc, Highmountain). 10/10 Draenei xpac.
Void is rough, which is whack. HOWEVER! I have a simple solution. Playable Mantid. I get playable bugs, Horde gets an irrefutable in into the Void xpac. Or get immediately villain batted. Most likely the latter.
Doesn’t matter. Will be a villain for Mantid.
Gimmie.
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Loa’jin, depending how they approach it, could be a in for either Light OR Life as he apparently took on the mantle of Rezan.
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I’ll be up-front, for all my criticism of the way people want to push more faction conflict as a vehicle for storytelling: I like elves and draenei (and trolls too). My first account I flipped my main from a night elf to a blood elf and rolled a draenei on alliance specifically because I liked that their tale both followed, in a way, narratives of holocaust survival and how it can mess up a people collectively and how recovery is a painful path.
As a result I’m still incredibly pissed off at the writing team for throwing a huge part of it in the trash.
So I come at it less from a point of caring about the factions and more about not wanting the factions to remain all-encompassing, all-devouring behemoths.
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While true, there is no conceivable way it happens for Light. I would not be shocked if Papa Blizz already forgot that Rezan was blessed by the sun. Though if Baal’s theory on Rezan’s father being An’she ends up being true that would be a VERY interesting conversation.
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Maw no. There is nothing “Horde-leaning” about him at all. Just being undead doesn’t make you Horde. The Alliance is full of Death Knights.
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Minor characters lol
Alliance has an “in” to the Pantheon of Life via *checks notes * Malfurion, prized student of Cenarius, son of Elune, and Tyrande, Chosen Priestess of Elune and Night Warrior.
Horde has *checks notes * Loa’jin and uh… Loti and uh… maybe Rokhan? Because of Loa’jin.
We both know ain’t nobody holding their breath for this lol
lol
Now, if Archerus/Ebon Blade decide to go Horde to fill the power vacuum of Sylvanas, and the Alliance/Turalyon gets outraged at Bolvar trying to make Tirion one of the Horsemen, now we’re talking.
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I HAVE ONE TRUE WISH BAAL! DON’T TAKE THIS FROM ME!
But overall, yeah. We’re playing second fiddle no matter what. Loa’jin isn’t an awful option for a Horde leaning ‘neutral’ into Life though. Probably our best bet outside of Baine suddenly becoming a Sunwalker going into a Light xpac. However, I still fully expect Malfurion and Anduin to take center stage because… of course.
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… It still won’t make me want to work with Alonsus Faol.
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Oh no, same, but, if Turalyon tells Bolvar to go to the Maw and stay there because he tried to make Tirion a Death Knight… and canonically all Alliance Death Knights are exiled from the Ebon Blade and the Ebon Blade goes Horde because Turalyon declares Deus Vult, that would slap
I’ll take it.
Won’t happen but could ya’ll imagine for a sec if Alliance was ignored in the Light expansion like Horde is in the Death one? This forum would be even more radioactive.
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The Ebons were already a way to make a cleaner version of Forsaken without the faction baggage for Wrath (which is kinda ironic because DKs were, like, canonically still scourge until 5 minutes ago) and I feel like there’d be an outcry if their major characters were integrated to the forsaken outright even if it didn’t force the class players out of their factions.
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