I think my only real interaction with her in legion was when she was being all catty about the Kaldorei to Thalyssra. And then the Arathi stuff in BFA yeah. It may of colored my perception of her a bit, but I see the point.
TBH I half way expect them to make Calia the guide for the Light expansion, and then everyone can be unhappy together.
They’ll probably make her the Horde-side one, but she has drops of development compared to Turalyon and Alleria
Well Kyalin, this is exactly what you´re kinda doing right now. By proxy of both washing your hands clean of any suggestion attempt at Horde rebuilding AND focusing only on the “how this solves the Nelf issue” you derail the thread in favor of achieving your own goals and nothing else (also you basically dismissing the aggravation of Horde players who repeatedly tell you that no, killing Nelves doesn´t make us feel better about our faction regardless on the actions of the Nelf characters doesn´t help your case).
You aknowledge that PvP solutions shouldn´t use PvE scenarios as a vehicle… and pray tell, what was your suggestion, again? YESSSS!!! A PvP narrative that used a PvE scenario as the vehicle to be implemented… talk about overall incoherency.
And no, taking into account the irl Human factor present currently in Blizzard is NOT unreasonable; but concocting “solutions” that requiere irl people to get fired from their jobs kinda is, Kyalin.
Liking the story is not a pre-requisite to PvP… as a matter of fact most PvPers access the content blatantly ignoring the lore and the story (to the point they jump from race to race to get the FOTM advantage each season).
Your RPing practices in PvP content is not a globalized behaviour, and the sooner you accept it, the better.
Obviously, she´s Light Human Potential in a weak undeath package.
You are free to disagree, but there is a tonal difference in how Blizz handles PC races killing one another; and how they portray NPC races. On top of the massive tonal difference between how Blizz portrays Alliance Races and Horde races. However, you have proven my point. That your scenario came from a pair of Agendas, then tried to be considerate of the Horde and Horde playerbase afterwards. But that consideration was never allowed to extend beyond the objectives of your Agenda. Giving the NEs a chance at a resolution for BfA, and supporting PvP on a story level. Both of which you know you cannot do without the Horde’s involvement.
This scenario you’ve concocted does nothing but try to manufacture sympathy for a Horde that finds itself in such a bad situation post-BfA that we might not even get that. And if you fail to actually accomplish that sympathy to offset who the Horde (especially the Orcs) are being pitted up against (the NEs), it IS going to be overshadowed by “we deserve this” and “we’re beating up our victims”. Which will fundamentally undermine any “rebuilding” or “redeeming” you are trying to accomplish here. And it is true that Horde also PvP too, not sure how that necessitates PvP being supported by the story anymore tho?
Its complicated. Being villain batted twice while being allowed few motives, when combined with over a decade of absurd neglect outside of those villain bat rounds … has left the Horde Faction in an awful place. The Faction Identity of WC3 is gone, and there is no getting it back. Something akin to it could be rebuilt on the nature of Saurfang’s sacrifice (“We can’t make up for our mistakes. Only accept them, learn from them, try to do better”) … but we are essentially starting from WC3 levels of square one here. With like 18 years worth of writing flushed away or undermined. So now we have to essentially reinvent ourselves with no focus allowed.
Next, several of our core racial fantasies are in miserable states. The Forsaken and the MU Orcs are very much starting from scratch again. The Darkspear are barely starting to recover from Legion. The Tauren haven’t had stories of their own in ages, rendering their two Reps having no racial stories to represent; resulting in them being made little more than accessories for Alliance PCs. Baine for Anduin. Hamuul for Malf. The only Core races in halfway decent spots right now are the Sin’dorei and Bilgewater, and thats because the first is ignored … the latter is written often as a “Joke-Race”. They escaped the fate of the others cuz neglect.
Finally … our Character roster is just in shambles. And in as hero driven as a game as WoW is, that is a very bad thing for our relevance and development as a Faction. With nearly our entire roster (including our council) being comprised of underused, underdeveloped, and vastly underpowered (compared to the Alliance) B Rankers at best. I could go on and on about the issues this avenue of Horde writing is dealing with. But as an example, the NEs alone now have as many developed characters as 5 of our core races combined. The MU Orcs, Darkspear, MulgoreTauren (since Hamuul doesn’t seem to exist), Forsaken, and Bilgewater.
You don´t need to point this out when his suggestion of a “neutral Horde” character for a Light/Void focused expac is basically a B ranked character who has more chemistry and development interacting with Alliance characters than with Horde ones -as a matter of fact Faol is basically a “who?” as far as average Horde players are concerned (at least I know none of my friends care for ther guy).
Faol’s kinda weird to me. He’s obviously undead and went through the whole forsaken experience, but I don’t think he’s shown any interest in wanting to be part of the forsaken, has he? I thought he was staunchly neutral. Also I imagine it’d be a bit of a kick in the teeth for the Father Of All Human Paladins to break neutrality and go horde.
What would be the alliance equivalent to this, anyway? Are there any alliance-race-but-not-alliance holy characters that would be Faol’s opposite? Because if the game’s just going to default to Anduin/Velen/Turalyon, I don’t see why Liadrin/Talanji couldn’t fit the role too, despite Liadrin being a B-lister. Although I’d expect (ugh) Calia to be a contender, since she was very specifically brought back as a lightsaken.
I will say for the record I was not in any was trying to press any particular alliance bend to the suggestion I tossed out. As was mentioned your all’s roster is just… small, particularly for Light/Void.
TBH I am hoping he is in an antagonistic role in a Light expansion, even if only until we beat sense into him. They seem to be setting a stage up for it.
Truly, screw Light and Void. If the Horde can’t find relevance in the one Cosmological Domain we’ve towered over the Blues since WC3 in terms of relevance and nuance (Death) … we aren’t going to find relevance in Light and Void content. You’ll have Liadrin being made a human accessory again, because Sin’dorei don’t have stories for her to represent. Which, fun fact, Liadrin (one of two Horde reps allowed on Argus during Legion) was so inconsequential in her presence there that Turalyon did not even know the Horde had Paladins until the Arathi Warfront lol! Aethus hunted a muffin. Holy sh*t is that humbling as hell!
The Horde Character roster is just in horrific shape period. Cosmologies are irrelevant.
Yuuuup
God we’re literally so irrelevant to the story lmao
Oh, I´m perfectly aware. I was just pointing out the irony on you guys realizing our cast is so pathetically small and pathetically underdeveloped you end up picking characters with more Alliance background than Horde proper, just like devs end up doing.
And then posters come here to derail the thread in favor of moar Alliance focused narrative instead of leaving us to live our utopia of Horde characters getting proper development…
Reminder that an unapologetic Night elf player is seriously suggesting that a scenario where the Horde loses to the Alliance more is good for the Horde’s development.
I wonder how this particular poster would respond if it were suggested that rebuilding the Night elves should involve them losing to the Horde more… 
Losing is only basis for story development if it’s Horde, if it’s Alliance losing then it’s humiliation or inconceivable.
Careful! You’ll get a dozen Alliance posters coming in to insist that Horde got such a fist-pumpingly, grand moment in the WoT…
I’m really just wondering where do we go from here. We’re 2 of 6 Pantheons down.
Pantheon of Order:
Pantheon of Death:
Pantheon of Life:
Pantheon of Light:
Pantheon of Shadow:
Pantheon of Chaos:
There’s no way to build a roster of characters for us since the past 5 years of lore (Legion, BFA, a year of Shadowlands) has left us in the gutter and with zero narrative gains.
But look at those BfA cinematics. Those are what count, right?
I cannot wait for Geya’rah to force orcs to drink fel for the third time. The reason she does it, desperation from threat of extermination from LF Draenei, will be buried in a book and no one will mention it in the raid.
Even better, after drinking the fel they will force their light forged prisoners to drink it as well.
Edit: 4500 
Man’ari… 2!!!
I’m only at 3233 because I am what? Powerful and know my worth and who isn’t worth my time.