Providing a space for Horde-centric analysis on what we desire and possibilities as to how to attain it are a step-up from the other thread that presented itself as “neutral” yet from the onset was centered on the sating of revenge by Alliance players with a total rejection of any flaws within the Alliance narrative, let alone recognition that the Alliance needs a flaw.
Which is why a majority of the Horde players have vacated that thread entirely.
Having a safe space for Horde centric analysis would have been fine if one of the solutions to said Horde centric analysis wasn’t “Let’s make the Alliance super racist”.
And I am arguing that these media depictions are a slippery slope.
If you are arguing Draenei are actually Jews then Baal can argue Orcs are muslims as he has done.
I am not asking you to defend Baal’s racist comparison.
I am asking you to consider making these cultural media depictions as anything but very loose inspirations that have no merit or relation to real life.
These are not the racist and antisemetic disney cartoons of the 50s and 60s.
You are opening a whole can of worms if you do. And besides these topics derail the topic and doesn’t allow us to examine the story on its own merits without attaching some real life burdens on it.
Goblins are not Jews. Draenei are not Jews. Orcs are not Muslims and on and on we go.
Are there are some identifiable stereotypes and inspirations?
Absolutely. But they are nothing more than just that.
It was the most common thing suggested by Horde players repeatedly in that thread, even after I left it for two weeks late January/early February, so I ain’t even the only one.
Sucks to suck, deal with it, fight with them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2LeOnTwvr0
I didn’t realize the brilliance of this scene until I found myself attending staff meetings back in the mid to late 90s. I wish I had the Force back then so I could Force choke a coworker, too.
There is no ‘we’, for the love of god, there is ‘us’ but there is no ‘we’ because no one here is Horde or Alliance in real life. We’re all slack-jawed nerds who need to fix our posture and stop leaning so close to the screen.
“Horde Players” and “Alliance players” do not factor in, nor should they, because anyone can roll a character of either faction. You keep bringing it back to trying to sort people by what primary colour their background is and I’m still going to point that out.
Smallioz, it’s really simple.
When it’s a positive depiction, it’s fine. When it’s not, it’s racist and you should feel bad.
You aren’t going to get anywhere with this.
Baalsamael has been viciously misstating my point and the intentions of the other thread because he does not want to address concerns other than his own in any capacity. That is the point of this thread. It’s a red-poster echo chamber that was set up because the posters in question want to dunk on the Alliance, and don’t want to consider that issues are interrelated, and that we need to work together and consider each of our objections.
Objecting that he shouldn’t be able to present Alliance solutions misses the point. He doesn’t care about fairness, he cares about his team, and he wants to know if you or others are “Alliance posters” so he can impugn your motives, lie about your arguments, and dismiss you generally in favor of a world that caters only to him.
I approached this manner in a tongue-and-cheek matter earlier - but this was never a conversation that was intended for Alliance players to intrude in on. It’s a haven for faction partisans, nothing more.
Both Morghel, and various other posters all stated they do not care about Horde opinions about what the Alliance want.
And you repeatedly ignored them, and even defended them when they were criticized.
You even joined them when bashing ideas that suggested Alliance be given some degree of a villain bat lmao
Was your earlier post mocking this thread where you wrote “Blaring Siren” or something deleted by a mod or did you delete it
Oh nah I reject this, have a blessed day though
Guess I better change out my forum character then. I do like this name though…
Who is going to fight for the genocide against murlocs the Alliance commits daily? or are the murlocs just ‘not civilized’ enough to be considered on the same level as the night Elves? The murlocs deserve justice! (this is meant as a joke but also a bit of seriousness)
Blizzard is 100% aware of all of this, They even have trader dialogue in Oribos that says that we (the Players) only consider ourselves morally superior because we tell ourselves we are morally superior. If history was written by murlocs ALL horde and Alliance champions would be genocidal murders. It’s entirely based on perspective.
We have have moral ambiguity in this universe. All of us. We can all make excuses for Teldrassil and Turajo or murdering Kobolds or killing murlocs. Murlocs are far more civilized than us because unlike us they haven’t tried to Attack Stormwind or Orgrimmar… they just want to exist on their beaches and pilfer our corpses. (that’s not to say that they wouldn’t but that also highlights the fact that we fight over resources because we can.)
I go out of my way to do the Blasted Lands murloc chain every time because they’re one of two murloc tribes that don’t try to eat my face and I love them.
Gantrithor is a Horde poster. I’ve disagreed with Morghel many times, and your claims that I don’t want the Alliance to be hit with the villain bat are at odds with reality. On the concept of the Alliance needing to be made more racist, I actually agree with you - that would have been obvious if you were reacting to what I said with anything other than blind faction partisanship.
But that’s the lens that you picked, and it became clear pretty quickly that you weren’t interested in a productive discussion. Hence this thread. I disagree somewhat with Poised here as well - it’s not possible to talk about one faction’s issues without considering its relationship to the other - it’s a faction based game after all. But if you’re going to do that - yes, you do have to engage with members of the other side and walk an increasingly thin tightrope that manages to satisfy many people at once.
i.e. Not just you.
It matters because people notice these things and what they mean. They see trolls as savages and it reinforces their views about the culture they represent, hostile and other. They see the Alliance a western coded good guys and reinforces beliefs that the West is best.
You are right though, I don’t want to derail the thread further.
This means his lunch break is over, I think. Entertainment hour via ‘debating’ story forums people must come to an end.
How dare you. I, a proud Alliance poster, will now go cry into my Lion themed tissues and then drown my sorrows in a bottle of rum dyed blue.
You literally didn’t respond to or criticize the dozens of times various Alliance posters literally said “The Alliance should not be villain batted, let alone made racist” in various ways.
You can choose to scroll up and see exactly what discussions drove each Horde player out, myself included.
Oh no I’m still here, no use in arguing with some whose fundamental claim about faction-relevancy I fundamentally disagree with (Kyalin too, apparently) but is your personal choice and truth.
Pointless really. So have a blessed day.
Unless of course you have something relevant to contribute for the Horde narrative?
So, should people completely shut up, because they were told? It wasn’t doubling down I wanted to understand the subject and elaborate on various scenarios. This is what critical thinking is.
And this is what higher education should be about, not to completely indoctrinate people but make them challenge topics and learn that way.
I see no crime in asking why, especially in this age where literally everything nowadays is considering racist, even eating a certain food.
So please excuse me that I’m keen on jumping on bandwagon because I was told to.
I believe I have stated my relevant thoughts on the Horde narrative several times over, which you have wilfully ignored via the text equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming. In fact, you can look through my posts and see many long posts speaking to just this. Moreover, given your very thread theme, my opinion ‘doesn’t matter’ in your eyes because I’m an “Alliance poster” so uh… which is it?
Like, I’ve stated my thoughts on the Horde narrative before, many times, often in threads you were posting in too.
I’m not going to be held to an absurd standard that I have to monitor and reply to every conversation in a three-thousand post thread - especially when I’m out for most of the day doing other things when those conversations are going on. This is a standard you’d never hold to yourself, and a point that you’re only advancing so that you can defend your dishonest position about me and what I was saying.
With that, I’m done here. Enjoy your echo chamber. Once again, to Alliance posters: this is not the place for you.
That doesn’t mean it is actually racist. Calling something racist isn’t an “I win now shut up” button. It just makes you a jerk.
But Baal has nothing else to do but call people racist online. Even though he apparently he has some kind of super education. His degree must not be very marketable.