They do absolutely represent the faction.
Just because a character like Jaina was in the Kirin Tor doesn’t that suddenly Jaina ceased to be Alliance.
The same applies to the nameless faceless NPCs unless stated otherwise.
Gotcha, so those Horde civilians that didn’t participate in the 4th war are just as guilty as those who operated the catapults when destroying Teldrassil. Ok.
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Given that those Horde civilians were throwing rotten fruits at Eitreig and whispering “for the darklady” then yes absolutely.
The Horde as a faction shouldn’t be trusted anymore unless certain efforts are made to explain why both factions should continue working together in any real collaborative way.
Ok.
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The Horde Narrative isn’t dependant on Alliance trusting them.
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Still a form of resistance, to walk away. But you can’t really stay and continue on like allways, without helping those who shouldn’t be helped.
No, and that’s not the issue. The issue is the Alliance working together with the Horde through these neutral organizations after bfa. It just doesn’t work unless you completely ignore the fourth war and Teldrassil.
It is when they are interacting with anyone related to the Alliance.
Go nuts with Horde only content but when it involves neutral content it concerns both of us.
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Maybe we just need a new neutral organization called the Ethereal Rhombus or something that doesn’t allow reps of playable races at all. Just pack them full of quilboar and tuskarr and stuff like that.
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Agreed. If there is zero people from either faction in this singular neutral faction then there are no issues.
This I actually agree with.
How about it, Blizzard? Wanna write a story about the Horde and Alliance rationally reconciling their differences after BFA without pulling a third party out of your @$$ they both have to team up each other to defeat and ‘that makes everything okay’?
Blizzard: Uhhhhh… (points behind me) WHAT IN THE WORLD CAN THAT BE!? (runs away)
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So you want to gatekeep neutral content until Alliance are placated.
Last I checked, Neutral content wasn’t dependant on Alliance player feelings.
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They kind of tried that near the end with everybody saying “for Azeroth” as a reasonable explanation.
Like Saurfang, my guy, where was this back in August when you were slicing and dicing NEs in Ashenvale?
Read what Skarm said. Maybe he writes better english than I do for your comprehension.
I did. You realize he’s pointing out the absurdity that is Blizzard writing themselves into a corner, right?
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Absolutely. And I am saying lets get out if that corner but you say things like “Horde owes alliance nothing”
Which means Blizzard should not get out of this self inflicted corner.
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To clarify my stance a little, I think that Neutral content’s skewering logically* depends on the ‘neutralness’ of the questgiver (either as an individual or as a member of their organization). I have a hard time seeing a member of an Alliance race willingly serving as a questgiver for both factions for example. And the Horde’s actions were so bad that even several ostensibly neutral factions likes the Cenarion Circle, Kirin Tor and Argents should have a hard time having ANY faith in Horde members.
I do indeed want the Horde to redeem itself and rebuild. I just see that as an unsurmountable challenge.
I do not want to see 1) The Horde dissolved as a faction-either completely destroyed or absorbed into the Alliance (Faction Merge) 2) The Horde to just become the ‘Red Alliance’ who possess no cultural systems or values that differ from the Alliances’ 3) The Horde to just give up and go full-on villain faction (which, despite some posters’ claims, it has not been for close to 20 years now in RL) as it has not been advertised as such during that time**
*in as much as that term can be applied to BFA’s story or it’s consequences
** Blizzard: WE WOULD NEVER MISREPRESENT THE STORY OF THE PRODUCT WE’RE SELLING TO OUR PLAYERS, NEVER EVER!
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That leads to further conflict and solves nothing.
Yes, but currently there is no reason for the Alliance to consider the Horde as anything but an enemy, due to bfa’s events. Mending relations after that will be far more difficult than simply going “look, we reformed our governenment”, which you think should be enough for the Alliance to tolerate, let alone respect the Horde.
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Yes I agree.
Naturally in collaborative efforts that involves both factions going forward has to explain why both factions are working together.
In BFA in Najatar it was stated as a temporary truce and both sides mistrusted each other tremendously and only worked together because they would die immediately to Azshara.
As an emergency measure this made sense at the time but going forward we need something more permanent and explanatory.
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Dude, no invalidation comes apart from the natural invalidation the organizations would get as consequence of them going from “neutral” to “faction oriented”. If Dalaran´s Kirin Tor becomes Alliance based once again, then it´s kinda logical and obvious that the Kirin Tor is NOT neutral anymore and simply becomes an Alliance exclusive rep, period.
Or did you expect for the story to focus in those “Alliance only” organizations as if they were neutral still? (ergo, in the main story only the Alliance officially fights and defeats the Big Bads while Horde only exists for gameplay?
Why is your selfish enjoyment of the Alliance faction more important than the COLLECTIVE enjoyment of Horde players regarding the faction? What reason is good enough to justify this?
Welcome to my world since WotLK. Unfortunately as a years old player wanting to get development for MY faction reps and MY characters, let me tell you Blizz is NOT interested in working too hard… they rather ignore the consequences of their own idiotic plots and devote the resources in one cookie cutter type of “neutrality”, period.
Certainly YOU not, but them yes. And then we reach that uncomfortable realization that if you can´t get away with stuff, then why can´t they? Why do you think we Hordies literally declared the “Horde redeemed in the Alliance eyes” as a lost cause? Cause there is ALWAYS one or several posters demanding for more punishment and more stuff… to the point we reach ridiculous suggestions like the one above asking for the Horde staying sequestered in hell so it didn´t appear in game, not even for it´s players.
Because hating the story is still a lesser issue in comparison to sharing a hobby with my friends in-game. And to raid, quest, dungeoning, etc. I don´t need to obssess on the story.
Thank you, now THAT´S the kind of attitude I like to see.
Last time I saw you people (as in your PCs) didn´t took him out of jail nor protected him in his journey to Outland… you literally limited yourselves to follow your God King who was GUIDING Saurfang in the literal last scenario of the expac.
So yes, deffinitely NOT comparable. Complain when you guys have to kill a Sentinel to defend Saurfang/Nathanos/Sylvanas, otherwise? You have no freaking idea.
Ok, big words you issued. If Tyrande gets the villain bat and a Horde loving Shandris gets -or worse, Delaryn- become the nuRacial Leader for Nelves I expect exactly ZERO complains (after all, you say you rather get this kind of treatment from part of Blizzard).
Ofc they win, cause let´s us ALL be honest: no matter how legitimately awful the story gets, fact is, NONE of us play merely for it. We play to share free time with friends and to shut down our brains from our day-to-day lives with an activity whose biggest demand is muscle memory, period.
NOT according to you, cause if neutral organizations become “Alliance only” and kick out the Hordies, then how can the Horde players get access to the content that is developed using the “formerly neutral but nowadays ONLY Alliance exclusive” rep?
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At the expense of the Horde players. “Getting out of the corner”, to you, is Horde being further humiliated.
Both factions are stuck in the corner and you want Alliance to do something to the Horde to get itself out. To make things “even”.
I submit that both factions can get themselves out of the corner independent of the other faction. You disagree and say this will hurt Alliance players.
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