He still died, didn’t he? It may not have been the belfs or forsaken that did him in, but he still got did in.
Again, both got utterly defeated and killed. They didn’t just walk away after doing what they did.
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Not to point out the obvious flaw in your argument here, but consider how we deal with both the Scourge and the LK. We tend to go in, cut off the head of the snake, then bounce. Leaving the Faction itself more or less in tact. Well, with Saurfang and Nate dead, and Wix in the wind the “heads of the Horde snake” responsible for the 4th war are all gone. Save for Sylvanas. And if your own arguments here with the Forsaken/BEs against Arthas and the MU Orcs against KJ are turned against you … then it should be perfectly acceptable for ANYONE (even Horde) to kill Sylvanas, for the NEs and Alliance to get their revenge. Even, say, Thrall. Just so long as she dies? And just like with the Legion and Scourge, once that head is cuttoff … we go on our merry ways.
So, if just like the Forsaken/BEs were given no relevance against Arthas, and the MU Orcs weren’t even given a bit part against KJ … if the Alliance and the NEs didn’t find any relevance in the defeat of Sylvanas. Its all good. Its resolved. She’s dead, that’s all that matters! Is that the argument you really are making here?
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That seems the way to go because tyrande isn’t in the raid, or?
So? Who cares? If all that matters is that she dies, it should be fine if “Thrall goes for the head” right? If the Forsaken/BEs having their entire relevance against Arthas stripped from them, and the MU Orcs not even existing in the downfall of KJ, is acceptable to Highlight a bunch of Alliance Light wielders … then Sylvanas being downed by an Horde Shaman should be just acceptable? Or are we operating off double standards here? 
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Are you real here? Isn’t the whole night elf argument that they should be the one killing Sylvanas as a resolution and that anyone else doing it would be bad for the night elf and would mean no resolution for them??? But somehow that doesn’t apply to both blood elf and forsaken that didin’t get the kill on Arthas or for orc that didn’t do anything with Kil’jaeden…
So what is good for every other race isn’t good for the night elf and what bad for the night elf isn’t bad for every other race… Man, how much can you twist everything just to push you victim agenda and keep asking to have more…
This. I guess that Tyrande killing Sylvanas isn’t important anymore as long as Sylvanas die. Since Sylvanas will probably die, does it mean that night elf got their resolution and that we can finally more on with the story of other race now?
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It wasn’t my argument. So adress this to the source of this argumentation. In my eyes it would be another real bad stofytelling if again thrall killsteal from the deserving deathblow. But tbh. I expect a killsteal again.
And i agree, bloodelfs and forsaken would have deserved to play a role against arthas, a very big role.
Instead we got the argent crusade…
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You forgot that we also killed an a large number of sub leaders and liutenants, like Kel’thuzzad, Lana’thel, Putress etc. A lot of them. Has that happened in the case of teldrassil? No, of course not. And i’m not asking for it.
The point is, Even though the belfs and Forsaken didn’t deal the killing blow, he still died. And large parts of the scourge’s leadership died alongside him. That’s catharsis that has not been given to the Night elves, or anyone on the Alliance.
Yes? Did you assume I demand that Tyrande get the killing blow? It’s rather irrelevant to me. She can die to falling rocks for all I care, as long as she dies, and stays dead.
That’s not how I see it. Not to mention, killing Sylvanas would solve very little to mend the bridges between the Horde and Alliance, imo.
You can a very stupid assumption, that being that killing Sylvanas will be enough to settle things. you are very, very, very mistaken.
Exactly what we said. Arthas and Kil’jaeden dying at the hand of alliance leader is enough as a resolution for two horde race but Sylvanas being kill is not enough for the night elf.
And you did kill Nathanos and Saurfang also died… But yeah once again, what is good for other race isn’t for the night elf…
I think the distinction is that unlike the horde, the factions aren’t exactly rushing to work alongside the scourge or legion after having removed its leadership.
Having said that, dismissing the lack of horde resolution with “as long as it’s taken care of, right?” still seems inconsistent with claiming that it’s not enough to deal with Sylvanas. I feel that to use the same logic, then the alliance wouldn’t need to get any sort of parting shot at the horde because the game hasn’t had us do that with the scourge or legion either.
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Tirion wasn’t an Alliance leader. He was human, sure. But that doesn’t equate to him being Alliance.
And frankly I didn’t care that Velen was there to watch his brother die. Wasn’t terribly important to me.
Yea, this is pretty much it. I’m not exactly hyped about being forced to work together with the Horde after bfa. Not until things have been straightened out.
Difference is, the Legion and Scourge remained our enemies, then and now. And that is unlikely to change. We’re not gonna be forced to work together with them, unlike the Horde.
The game doesn’t treat the Horde like the scourge or legion, despite it arguably doing more damage to the Alliance than either. The Alliance should treat the Horde like it does those two entities at this point. The fact that it’s not, makes it seem like we’re back to being these unlikely allies, which is frankly ridiculus looking at it from an Alliance perspective. And if the game wants me to believe that, then it will have to do a lot more than have Sylvanas die or have Horde players save a few Night elven souls from the maw.
Right, Nathanos died, all according to his keikaku. And Saurfang died a hero, exactly as he wanted, mourned by the Horde and even given a speach. Not exactly the same as Putress dying after getting wacked by a bunch of loot hungry vagrants.
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Look, it’s not because of Sylvanas herself that it comes to such feelings. I think what many forget, for example, is that Teldrassil only accelerated an escalation that the night elf com had been showing for a long time and rightly so. It is not a single event in itself that caused the escalation, but it just meant over a long time for the night elves whenever they got spotlight, that they either lost something or what was known before was strongly weakened or simply objectively shared in the lore.
Who thinks that the night elf com only because of Teldrassil so escalates and is pissed off, is wrong, this development has accumulated since Classic WOW, that’s 15 years where this race in many respects has simply been treated by WOW absolutely stupid. If your whole narrative actually only consists of “taken away”, “pitiful” and everything that the fan community liked about the night elves from WC3 is downright DESTROYED, then that provides in the long run for a frustration that is merely ESCALED with Teldrassil, but has been swelling for a very long time.
Sylvanas was ultimately the last spark that ignited the already dry hay, now you finally want to have back what you originally decided and you simply want revenge and retribution, you want to feel strong again, feel powerful…something that was no longer the case for 15 years.
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Yeah, this works too. Perhaps the Night Elf players can make a thread about how to rebuild their race.
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Translation: those don’t count because reasons…
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Was the Horde pathetic? Stupid, duplicitous, suffering from a split personality, irrelevant (not sure), but pathetic?
Arthas and Kil’Jeden aren’t the same thing?
Followed 2 genocidal warchiefs in 4 expansions. You tell me.
The horde as a Faction was not ruined in the same way, the themes of the horde are still intact, the problem is the “shadow” of the missdeeds from certain characters. But, the themes of the horde are still horde, since 15 years and longer, they get never shared. So, to solve the Horde problem we need to rebuild the TRUST in the Horde, thats the real dmg of the horde, we don´t trust the writer anymore and the horde cannot be trusted, their words is worth nothing.
So, if you want to rebuild the horde, you must rebuild the trust in the faction, and this takes time, you can´t avoid this, it´s exist no "easy"path there.
Deaths are not equal, no. How they die and why is just as, if not more important that they die.
I still don’t get your point. Because as I told Micah, there are only two Core racial leaders left from BfA. Baine and Lor’themar. The least contentious Horde leaders for the majority of the Alliance and Alliance players. There are only two Core AR racial leaders predating Teld. Malya and Thalyssra, again, the least contentious Horde AR leaders for the majority of Alliance players. All of whom were at least allowed to express regret in some form for Teld, and the latter two even getting to express regret joining the Horde at all at one point.
The rest though? Weren’t in charge during Teld. They may have participated in the 4th WAR for the Horde after Teld occured, but Thrall, Gazlowe, Voss/Calia, and even Rokhan (who was not leader of the Darkspear until 8.3) do not share that sin. Neither do Geya’rah, Talanji, or Kiro. So like it or not, the Alliance players more or less got what they are describing here. The Horde leadership is gutted, and the architects of the WoT are all gone. And what it boils down to is really the Horde just having less characters to cull through for that objective.
So, its not really that the Horde was given that different of a treatment to the Legion or Scourge. Its more its seems your just feeling Blue Balled because it was largely Blizz (and not the Alliance) that did that culling and doled out that punishment. With Sylvanas on the potential chopping block coming up here. So I guess if you guys want to hunt down the War Profiteer Gallywix? More power to you?
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“That’s different”
What about the current horde is the same as the WC3 Horde?
Those themes being what?
Hey Villain-batted, killed or ignored?
What?
That’s true of both factions.
That’s what this thread is about. So stop whining about the feelings of the Night Elf players.
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It’s “stupid,” “unlearnable”.