The Horde building themselves sure. Thats ok.
That same Horde waltzing into Hyjal to talk to some Cenarion Circle members. Not ok.
Its completely tone deaf. You understand?
So, not only is Horde rebuilding dependant on Alliance player’s feelings but the Horde’s ability to interact with neutral entities is tied to Alliance player feelings as well?
If you say so…
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Well considering all the displaced NEs are there now as refugees by direct actions of Horde as a faction and Horde player participation then yes.
If the underlying issues are not addressed by the story which you clearly refuse to allow to be addressed in a satisfactory way for both sides then it creates problems for anything that happens outside of Horde’s borders.
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Then let´s compromise better:
If neutral organizations HAVE TO become “Alliance friendly only” then , “Neutral organizations” taking the protagonist role in regards to big bad threats WON´T EVER HAPPEN AGAIN. Cause that´s one way to easily and cheaply (the wet dream for Blizz devs as per Order Halls proved in Legion) erase the Horde from the narrative and that´s a no-no for us.
Let the useless and cheap Neutral Organizations die the death they deserved after Vanilla launched… cause they have never made sense in a game focused in two political entities kicking the f out from each other.
Man, I´d love to get my own class oriented organizations, but we both know that´s too much to ask from Blizzard (will probablyt cost us a whole expac worth of raid tiers).
You mean like:
Eliminating the warchief position?
Hunting Sylvanas?
Killing Nathanos and Saurfang?
Horde rescuing Night elf souls from the Maw?
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Yes absolutely because eliminating the warchief position is completely pointless when all the Horde leaders gleefully participated in the war. Taking a vote never seemed to matter at any point before Teld happened or after it.
As for the rest. Yes absolutely, hunting down just one person is not addressing what the Horde or its player did even if we assume the Horde player saves every single Night Elf soul from bad hell to where they souls were supposed to go in the first place. The Horde sent them there in the first place and by the way the Horde PLAYER saving the souls bears nothing on the Horde FACTION. It just means the Horde player is a swell guy.
Again you are going back to the argument your problems are already addressed and I can say so were yours “See Baine and Thrall are in Shadowlands see how important they are in the neutral story”.
You are essentially telling me what Alliance needs to be redeemed.
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No, my argument is and always has been that nothing will satisfy Alliance players. No matter what the Horde does it won’t be enough or it won’t count. You’re doing that right now.
But guess what? The Horde owes the Alliance nothing.
This sounds distinctly like a ‘you’ problem.
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And there you go. Why every time you wonder why someone would comment on a “Horde redemption thread” is because that redemption just causes more negative impacts on the Alliance side.
Well if I have enough respect to not presume to tell you what do or don’t need then I thought at the very least you would extend the same courtesy.
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This and your blatant apologism regarding “I have no idea and don´t care what Hordies deserve, I just know what I want for muh enjoyment” certainly proves you see the Horde and it´s playerbase as nothing but inconveniencies for YOUR gameplay experience, dude.
And this thread is NOT about that. We shouldn´t have to jump extra loops so YOU get to like the Alliance, that´s kinda a YOU problem.
I tell you what I need.
You tell me what you need.
We compromise.
Wouldn’t that be better? I don’t think what we need and our enjoyment need to be mutually exclusive.
But you seem to think it is and get aggressive in every sentence that you post about it.
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What negative impact did my hypothetical have on the Alliance?
What I typed:
“Horde has issues. Here’s some suggestions to possibly fix them.”
What you read:
“The Alliance needs to be redeemed.”
Like, what?
As I mentioned as soon as the Horde pokes its head out of its territory and interacts with anything beside themselves that is remotely Alliance related it impacts Alliance players negatively because seemingly the Horde commited a genocide and caused a horrific war but because they made a council and saufang died we have to pretend nothing happened?
No. I read your suggestions and thought they were pretty cool if thats what you wanted. I even told you I don’t object to them, I only mentioned that beyond those it seemed you are totally forgetting that not addressing the previous events would impact Alliance negatively.
You may respond that is a you problem. Sure.
Now lets say Alliance had the same chance as the Horde did to make all these improvements. One of them being that the Alliance needs to inflict a big fat L on the Horde. Would that be ok?
And all neutral and alliance leaning characters will constantly mistrust or even refuse to outright work with the Horde based on past events. Would that also be ok with you?
Because then that would be a you problem wouldn’t it?
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Except you have NOT extended that courtesy. Cause your only contributions to this thread are “Horde NEEDS to be portrayed as weaker so Alliance looks stronger and I get to finally like it”.
So yes, you´re kinda telling us what we MUST need -for your convenience ofc, who cares about what we deserve-
I get aggresive cause you little guy ARE being aggresive. You are so aggresive you refuse to see any type of content that doesn´t involve the Alliance getting depicted as “bigger, better and stronger” as an afront and non negotiable for you. You even got bothered when I pointed out how in the case you guys get your “Alliance top dog” fetish we Hordies should get the mercy of not more Alliance / formerly Alliance /Alliance flavored characters appearing in front of us ever again (to the point you tried and failed to joke over it). I mean one would have thought you would have supported me instead of trying to ridicule me, if you actually CARED for our feelings.
i haven´t seen any indication you actually care over learning what I need, dude. Cause big fat L kinda implies I NEED NOT TO SEE Alliance ever again in my gameplay, capisce? and NOT to hear “buut, buut!! why so much resources in Hurde content, muh Alliance content got cut because of if QQQ!!!” ever again too while we are at it.And no more “lul, Hurde aren´t good and shouldn´t appear as heroes cause remember Teld?!?” BS threads and so on and so fort.
Once again, the goal of this thread (and my suggestions) is not about making Alliance players feel better.
You mean, Alliance players actually making their own thread about what the Alliance needs instead of coming into one focused on the Horde and demanding we take The Alliance and their feelings into consideration?
Sure, knock yourself out.
I have no problem with Alliance making suggestions about what they feel their faction needs… in a thread directed at that particular topic.
Would it be OK if you created a thread about fixing the Alliance and a bunch of Horde came in saying “nah, you guys suck.” or “but how does that help the Horde?” for every suggestion given?
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That is what happened with the Alliance in BFA, Cata and MoP. That the Alliance is weaker and their lands are always on fire. The Alliance needs a moment of strenght. Lordaeron would have been that if the Horde did not get to win at the end despite Alliance’s best efforts.
Before you argue it should or it shouldn’t. The Alliance playerbase doesn’t consider it as such. They want to get a win because they are constantly told they suck by Blizzard.
No I am not aggressive. If I was you would know.
I am telling you what I need nothing more. I have tried other ideas that didn’t involve the big L like the expulsion of the Horde from Alliance related areas and organizations so I wouldn’t have to see both sides get along again like nothing happened and you get aggressive about that too. It seems nothing but complete submission is satisfying for you.
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I think most Alliance players are in consensus of what is wrong with their faction and besides the “Andiun/Humans take too much screen time” what the Alliance needs has direct impact on the Horde.
But fine I will leave this thread. I think I made my point clear.
I sincerely hope the writing gets better for the Horde side as much as I hope it gets better on my side but I am not too hopeful. Though I think you should be more optimistic, everything points towards a better writing for the Horde player and what they need with Thrall getting his mojo back.
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Are they though?
Sure, if you say so. Either way, has nothing to do with rebuilding the Horde.
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Yes. And they are so consistent that they have become memes.
But they aren´t being selfish people Gant, we are cause we don´t take their feelings and enjoyment ABOVE our own in a thread created with the purpose of making Horde players get enjoyment over the Horde, you see. Clearly the Horde players MUST ALWAYS take the Alliance player enjoyment of the game first and foremost U_U.
And I think you guys just love to gaslight yourselves instead. No seriously, you come to tell me that Alliance got portrayed as “weaker than the Horde” in Cata when YOUR gameplay basically kicked out the Horde from Ashenvale. And made Genn start as a badas in Stormheim, no consequences over breaking an actual armistice involved. You tell me this after SoO in which we got NOT ONLY the Nelves portrayed as crucial to defeat Garrosh, but Varian as a magnanimous force of nature that threatened to end the Horde and got no aggresion for it?
The Alliance get told they are stronger than the Horde in BOTH side material like novels and in-game, but it´s NEVER good enough for you people. You won´t be content until the whole freaking map bleed blue and the Horde character roster in chains, I´m afraid (cause I bet Kalimdor should be ALL Nelf cause WoTA and all EK blue too cause WC1-WC2 and so on, right? I mean I´d love to see your answer regarding “Horde territory” and “Alliance territory” for starters…)
Getting told I´m a broken record in a scumbag way after I petitioned to not see Alliance stuff ever again in the case of “Alliance military glorification” seemed like aggresive enough, little guy.
You´re not as subtle as you believe you are.
Dude, for starters, you petitioned for the expulsion and forevermore rejection of Horde characters IN ADDITION to the big L. And you never ever tried to fix the issues with erasing Horde from neutral organization in the event neutral expacs appear, nothing more than a vague mention devs maybe would put some obscure rep to fill in gameplay content for Hordies.
And you are the one that still insist Alliance HAS TO BE STRONGER than Horde and that anything different from it is “Hordies demanding complete submissions”, the irony. Horde existing MAKES the Alliance weaker somehow in your “power fetished” PoV, regardless on devs (literal Word of God) telling you people you ARE stronger.
You have proven you have NO interest in “compromises” apart from “I get what I want and I don´t give a censored word over what you want”. Empty words, as expected I suppose.
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It’s kind of sobering that, if you consider Kyalin’s post on this same topic got about 3000 posts before it was abandoned for this one, which is now closing in on 2500 posts, that we have spent more than five thousand posts arguing about what should happen with the Horde post-BfA, and I feel like we haven’t gotten much of anywhere.
No one’s proposals satisfy everyone, and so it just devolves into repeated rounds of us accusing each other of ignoring the other side’s grievances. At this point everyone’s grievances are so entangled I don’t even know what will solve them.
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