Its too late for real vegancy. Would it happened in bfa, oky, fine. Now blizz tried everything to make the situation even worse and its no longer a real option. If the nightelfes get a representation in the new raid, they can be lucky, but don’t expect it.
Revenge isn’t on the table anymore (blizz pov)
You actually taking this thread seriosuly and not like a low level troll would make me happy… you say this:
Which frankly reads as “I want muh WC2 Alliance in which they are the supremacist top big dog while the Hordies just ran away like the beta kicked dogs they are and go somewhere else” (cause this is how the whole conflict seems to look for you from what I have deduced of your posts: a mere dic measuring contest, and the Alliance HAS TO get the bigger dic to be once again “acceptable” in your eyes).
And I don´t see how this is benefitial AT ALL for the future development of my faction, cause if they´re SO weak then how can they even dream of PARTICIPATING in the game? Do elaborate if you disagree.
Probably right.
Then there is probably option B.
Kick the Horde out of every single alliance leaning neutral organization.
Dial that mistrust and hostility to 100%. At least the mistrust and the crimes will be addressed that way.
The Horde player can get some NPC reps at Org for anything they might need and most of the zones are set in the “past” anyway so the gameplay won’t be affected previously but should be reflected going forward.
You read it wrong given that english isn’t your first language I will forgive you. This is purely a misunderstanding on your part and is not the reality of what I am saying.
And thats something that could have been better, more more contextually, written.
“We can’t hold this line but…”
“We can’t stop them now but…”
“There are so many but…”
“We can do this while…”
It may not necessarily need to right the scales in a pro-active or future narrative. As has been pointed out, the vast majority of Horde conflicts were losses, if not exclusively, after Teld. It was fairly well pointed out that both factions are exhausted. Stormwind was drafting peasants, the Horde did collapse. Which is why were here on how to rebuild it. How us primarily Horde players would like it seen rebuilt.
Which kinda brings us here. The Horde of Classic isn’t the Horde of now. The alliances of convenience and security aren’t as tenuous as they were. We don’t want to narratively regress for the sake of regressing into that mindset. The Horde, directly, I don’t think needs to be punished either, assuming punishment requires something like Silvermoon getting void nuked. It can clearly be indirect, to feel suffocated in their own lands. A strong Alliance Stromgarde and Gilneas can be just that, for example. It is punishment without the physical beating of someone thats already down. Something that, further, the Horde players don’t deserve either and would rather see the Alliance get built up in places they deserve anyway.
np, I’ve always advocated that belfs were a good addition, mishandeling that all races get notwithstanding.
And thank you for your no hold barred calling out of the BS. I am too tired to get into prolonged bouts with people who are not coming from a place of good faith (not talking about Sarm as I think they are an okay poster as this got resolved fine.)
Revenge is the only solution because the problem with the way the Night Elves are portrayed is directly tied to the Faction Rivalry. Night Elves aren’t allowed to win in the faction rivalry and thus can’t be taken seriously as rivals. Night Elf players can’t take the idea of actually fighting the Horde seriously because we’re never given a reason to think we could possibly win.
If you want to complain about beating up playable factions then I’d like to know where you were when the War of Thorns and Burning of Teldrassil was announced. If I had to take a guess I’d say probably cheering right up until they revealed that it would mean getting villain batted again at the last second.
That’s all well and good, the Forsaken Playerbase shouldn’t have had to deal with Sylvanas becoming the new big bad nor should have lost Lordaeron. But sieging Lordaeron made me feel absolutely nothing. That wasn’t a Night Elf motivated retaliation. It was an excuse to give Male Human Paladins their deus vult moment. It doesn’t solve the problems of presentation that Night Elves face.
I’m asking you to be okay with the Horde as an entity within the Warcraft Universe to take an L in order to solve the problems facing Night Elves as another entity within the Warcraft Universe that have piss poor presentation on screen. I’m also making it abundantly clear that I don’t want nor need you as a player to experience that loss while I experience it as a win. The fact you keep leaving out that part of my stance no matter how many times I re-state it really shows up unwilling you are to come together as players and start targeting the real problem which is the writers.
In regards to the problems facing Blood Elves, Forsaken, Orcs, and other Horde races it is simply not my place to say what they need and what they should get. I’m not a fan of those races and I’m not active in their communities. I don’t know what’s best to fix the problems the Forsaken Players face because I’m not one of them. But this whataboutism is exactly what I was talking about.
If Forsaken Players want to make threads about what they want and what they need to feel good playing Forsaken again then I will click the heart on their posts and show my solidarity as best I can. But just because those issues exist doesn’t mean I can’t focus on my own as a Night Elf Player.
Unfortunately I think it absolutely needs to. Alliance has been dealing with Horde inflicted losses for several expansions now ever since Cataclysm.
And I am not just talking about “You lost the Scepter” or “these boats you pursued for a few patches were blown up”. The Alliance has had to take the Horde punches that Blizzard has delivered for a while now I think its time the Horde had to hold this bag a while.
I have agreed that both factions needs rebuilding, my idea was to allow the Alliance one last big hit in to just get it over with and let the Horde rebuild from there.
Heck for once the Horde gets to have one iota of this moral superiority ground some Horde players seem to crave so much.
Or we go the other way where Horde is excluded from every single Alliance leaning organization. Like Tauren being kicked out of Cenarion Circle for their Horde association, same thing would happen to organizations like the Kirin Tor and the Knights of Silverhand or Argent Dawn.
I think BFA proved that the Alliance of convenience is even more stronger than Classic. Genns final words were that no scrap of parchment would stop the Horde from attacking if they felt like it. BFA war started because of the possibility that Alliance might attack again.
I think the chances of that have increased since then. There is more badblood between the two factions than ever before and none of it has been resolved.
I struggle to think what sort of rebuilding would be at all worthwhile when the Horde responsible is right over the poorly defended side of the fence gearing up to attack again by rebuilding their strength. Seems like a terrible idea for anyone at the Alliance to allow that to happen.
I don´t think I´m wrong considering you didn´t even last two post before saying this:
The last phrase is very telling… out of all the neutral organizations, only the Earth Ring is “slightly” Horde leaning -and debatable cause the draenei broken are VERY prominent in there-, so while kicking the Horde out of basically ALL neutral organizations sans ONE wouldn´t be bad IF the game developers took time and resources to make them create, establish AND develop Horde exclusive organizations as a replacement for Horde players, I doubt the devs would actually implement this. So your proposal basically cauterize almost all chances of Horde characters getting screentime AND development in “neutral” expacs and condemn people like myself to work for your Alliance flavored characters 24/7 in the future (cause you know… newer expacs are usually developed “in the future of Azeroth” timeline wise, ergo in newer content the Horde only exist in a niche place, NOT in the actual main narrative.)
And I´m quite crertain you don´t have positive development for the Horde in regards to the “At least the mistrust and the crimes will be addressed that way” part, if anything this implies future reps WILL HAVE TO be “educated” in regards to the Horde barbarians A.K.A. even less chances for the Horde characters to get depicted positively in future content (how can they when the “neutral” newbies rejected them as they totally should?)
But sure, this is no “dic measuring contest” for you. /s
Indeed in his haste to throw a barb towards Erevien, he didn´t realize he put himself in the same position of the malicious portion of the Helfer playerbase or the malicious MHP trope posters.
Hopefully he will be more careful in the future.
Actually I disagree with this. If you actually look at the issue with objectivity, is NOT the Horde races making them Nelves look weak… it´s the Human Potential explotation making the Nelves look weak. When the War of Thorns tells me the Horde needed the armies of 6 races IN ADDITION TO the Nelf army being ABSENT from the territory to invade, the message I get is NOT that the Nelves are weaker than Orcs + Horde but the contrary, that the Nelves are WAAAY stronger; strong to the point they had to get handicapped for the events to occur.
BUT, when the narrative shows me that a single Human is more intelligent and wiser than 10k old Nelves, yes, I get the idea they´re pitiful.
So me thinks you people will continue to get portrayed as pathetic human lapdogs even if you kick the Horde in the nuts in a revenge scenario. Cause the individuals making you look bad, stupid and weak by comparison are NOT the Horde races, but the Alliance Primma Donna.
Moral superiority? Explain cause I don´t see the link between “Horde criminals that get put in their place” and any kind of moral superiority whatsoever…
You preach and preach over “Horde rebuilding”… butr you don´t say anything else. How will the Horde rebuild, say concrete stuff nor merely empty words with zero meaning behind them. Post concrete stuff, not phrases used by politicians while in campaing.
Just a reminder that you are in a thread about rebuilding the horde and not a night elf one.
Just saying it.
I love when Alliance come in and say Horde need to take an L…
… as if the Horde didn’t take several in BfA.
Night Elf not making every thread about themselves challenge
Wow i accidently erase my whole reply to his post… Not gonna write it again.
I think that Blizzard should. It isn’t too hard. Just reskin some flags and new organization and its done. Also now the Horde won’t feel like an outsider while they walk Night Elf Druid Groves and Human Mage Towers for their neutral content.
Also this will allow these organization to be even more openly Alliance without having to pretend to be friendly to both sides. Truly a win for everyone if Blizzard decided to go down this road.
If you doubt even this minimum measure is too big of an ask then abandon all hope and get comfortable with the status quo.
Yes I don’t because I don’t think I know what exactly would please you people but I do know “Lets pretend we did nothing wrong and ignore it all happened” would severely impact whatever small enjoyment I can get from the story.
Lets just say I don’t want Malfurion to greet you like a friend the next time you have to take a quest from him though I wish you didn’t have to in the first place.
You seem to operate in this weird dimension that even when if we assume Blizzard is making improvements somehow you still have the same problems that have plagued you so far.
But lets not kid ourselves I am pretty sure in the future Blizzard will make the faction characters get along. We are already getting that, hell we got it in BFA when they all stood around and sang kumbaya while Saurfang responsible for participating in multiple genocides and leading one is treated as a hero not only by the Horde but the Alliance characters as well.
Horde gets attacked in an armistice. And doesn’t attack back and tries to be the bigger man by refusing to start another war and let the Alliance to take care of their problems with assurances that it wont happen again.
This is beat for beat what happened in MoP ending and BFA ending.
If you click on the pencil icon next to your post timestamp, you get a pop-up window that lets you look at previous versions of your post. Dunno if it’s necessary, but more of a “the more you know” sort of thing.
Clearly the Alliance saw the Horde Ls and said “not enough”.
If I had to make an analogy this would be like you complaining about the Horde not mattering much in the neutral stories and the Alliance player rather than agreeing with you that it is ridiculous that Baine is sitting alone in a corner in Shadowlands as the Horde rep for this expansion would actually argue otherwise.
I am sure you will find that frustrating.
That’s painfully obvious.
Clearly but at least they agree with you when it comes to your points regarding useless Horde characters not playing bigger roles. For you that level of participation is not enough, if they meet you half way, you can meet them half way.
Halfway on deciding that the Horde needs more losses?
Nah.