I don’t even read past the patronizing language so if you ever raised any arguments I missed them.
Sorry not sorry.
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You can look at my post history and see I’ve stated time and time again that I don’t need Horde Players to go through what I went through when Blizzard decided to spend 3 weeks show casing the Horde running rough shod over the Night Elves for your power fantasy.
I’ve would much rather have Horde players working to restore the Forsaken over on the EK or something to that nature instead. Whatever is needed to allow the Kaldorei to retake Ashenvale in a big way, in it’s entirety, and have it be on screen and properly reflected in an updated zone for me and other nelf fans.
None of which requires Horde players to experience it from the losing side.
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I mean if you are to call out people for not having good argument you might start giving argument yourself. Which you never do.
All you do is insulting people on what they are instead of arguing with their argument, trow some silly small sentenced insult, all that while hiding behind a level 30 classic avatar with hiding profile because you can’t face you own word.
Ariel might be super aggressive most of time and sometime fail to try to understand the other person opinion but she do give argument base on the in game story.
RE: WoT Narrative
I want to swing back around to the point that it is Blizzard’s writers that we need to be upset here with for giving us both poor narratives to follow. If you want to yell at anyone over internet or make incoherent ramblings, maybe its them don’t you think?
Here me out, Blizzard knows how to tease, present, or show good narratives when they put in the effort or good ideas are allowed to be pursued without time or larger narrative constraint.
To use War of the Thorns as just an example since it seems to be a hot topic here - Does anyone recall the conflict teaser from Chronicle II where the Bleeding Hallow went into Stranglethorn and just had a back and forth guerilla warfare for fun? A conflict where the native population, knowing the land with great knowledge of warfare and blessings of their Loa just went blow for blow with a clan who survived in a jungle where everything that existed was basically orc-icide? Who equally had to embrace their magics and fight in a guerilla style against basically everything? While it was never fully fleshed out, they know how to tease these things. They know what can sell, what would be great narratives and conflicts.
To WoT - had they actually cared about the actual conflict rather than shoe-horning their future plots, the tree, and preparing the rest of the trash pile, do we not think there could have been proper, or better, narrative given to the event? Did the writers suddenly forget the Darkspear and jungle trolls existed outside of a future meme? Not that I expect orcs within the Horde military to all of a sudden relearn generations of guerilla warfare or tactics, but you’d think maybe thats something they could have been teased or experimented over the few years between WoD and BFA? Hell, its not like Grom’Gol or Swamp of Sorrows has any lack of ‘F this place’ mentality that makes for guerilla and harsh environment training necessary among orcs.
They could have made WoT still a grueling, terrifying, strong defensive showing for Night Elves. And to Night Elves, I want to keep that for you. However let us be clear, lets use actual military units vs actual military units. Lets have a troll and elf playing cat and mouse for days in the trees and in the dark. Maybe a few orcs taking up Shattered Hand traditions - attempting to go toe for toe in the same manner, but still keep that 8-1 K/D ratio. Emphasize the Horde was, largely, going full steam ahead without a proper or thorough sweep of the ground they gained that only exasperated their casualties because they’re still running against the clock. Slow and steady may have created fewer losses, but stalled out against the full military. Really exemplify that, hammer the point home that only like 10% of Ashenvale was actually taken - the main road, and a poorly conquered main road at that.
Similarly, and I hope any Alliance players to feel the same, I would want the Night Elves and their big cats to be absolutely swept in the open Barrens if it came back the other way. Where packed wolf riders and over imposing tauren simply stride without care. Where there isn’t dense thickets to hide. Where Longrunners know every ridge, crevice, and secure natural shortcut across the expanse. Where shaman sunder the earth in half. Yet allow hippogryph riders sore the skies against wyvern riders toe to toe. Long range glaives slice through lines of infantry. Elekks giving kodo a run for their money. To allow the Alliance to feel powerful in the throws of defeat. Lets play to our strengths, giving everyone the story they deserve to feel heroic.
I honestly struggle to find issue here among many. We’re all suffering under the same issues. Sure, maybe every idea isn’t the best but damn if we couldn’t work at them collectively. Hell, my idea above probably isnt great to everyone but damnit if I’m not confident its multiple times better than what Blizzard gave us.
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Yes I 100% agree with this statement Honey cupcakes.
Man, not even the humans as a race get content. This is the fetish story done by people that can only make fanfictions regarding a handful of self inserts / pet characters (Anduin and Jaina seem like the most prominent vehicles for those writers on Alliance, ergo why only the Humans get “good content”).
I know I lashed out, but this is precisely cause this isn´t the first time he takes on that attitude… nor it was the first time I asked for clarification from him (first time I was nice about it and expected the stuff to be done. And then he goes and acts like your average hateful Helfer, making me think maybe it´s not a joke, maybe if this is a pattern he DOES want us gone and resents us deep inside, cause if not he wouldn´t joke about that. Specially AFTER I pointed out how discouraging THIs jokes come out for us Belf fans).
For him to come out and dismiss how the use of those jokes that can be rude and even hurtful for Belf posters like me as a whole using the “lul, I wanted to bother Erevien and that´s fine in this place so my joke is ok” BS excuse basically enraged me. If he wants to give a poster he dislikes attitude there are better, less scumbag esque ways than to invoke the n-esim iteration of “you guys don´t belong here!!” decade old dead horse. I don´t need to get reminders on how I am an “undesirable element” in his exclusive club, I get enough of those in a regular basis on other places -heck i get reminders in the lore with any new iteration of “Belves are SO stupid” jokes like the tourists in Dazaralor for example-.
Sure dear, that´s why you continue to answer. Keep telling that to yourself if it helps you live with yourself.
Btw, your ignore tool got broken.
Maybe not but the idea that we get hurt too if on top of getting villain batted we get humiliated and portrayed as weak and helpless as a consequence of the villain batting we didn´t ask nor liked in the first place DO seems an idea too much hard to grasp for yourself. Even wondered maybe after you guys get your “revenge for Teldrassil” scenario the last thing we would want is to get any shape, way or form of interaction with you and/or your faction, guys?
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Was there anything posted after the second word? We will never know.
Scholars are still baffled by the phenomenon.
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Fair enough. Don’t worry i am not calling you out, in fact i don’t know you enough for knowing all you opinion.
I was mostly responding with her to your comment about Smallioz calling out horde player for our hypocrisy, when all we want is mostly not being punished even more. When we all know that smallioz have no other opinion outside of calling out people just because this is all what he do.
And if your idea of the horde hypocrisy is about the horde not wanting resolution for the night elf story, remember that many night elf poster ask for the horde to be beat even more just so the night elf only can be happy. This is mostly what most horde player are fighting on, which from time to time cough some reasonable night elf player like you in it. I am sorry for that. But at the end, most horde poster have no problem with the night elf having positive content after the mess that teldrassil was, just not at the cost of the horde being even more put down.
The point of WoT was a quick attack by the Horde to beat the NEs before the Alliance could respond. If Teld didn’t burn the whole expansion would be re-written where it concerned the war.
Blizzard wanted a fresh Horde self discovery storyline for players to experiences, especially new ones it seems since it funnels new players right into BFA.
In WoT the Horde, despite the egregious 8/1 ratio of losses got their epic victory to start the expansion off.
Many Horde players enjoyed and many didn’t but it got the job done that Blizzard needed. They knew what they were doing.
They just miscalculated the response, they thought the Saurfang story will make even the anti war Horde players happy.
Thats why he became green jesus ver. 2.0
I would love for this to be the case but it will never happen when any thread started by an Alliance poster that wants to have a discussion about how to fix Alliance problems is immediately either downvoted until it’s gone or flooded with whataboutisms to derail it into being about how any form of resolution for Alliance players is completely and 100% unacceptable because it might require the Horde to take an L for once militarily.
Other than that I largely agree with everything else you said and stand by the post as something that should be strived for.
I don’t know who you think I am but you clearly don’t read my posts, but frankly your sentence structure makes it hard for me to fully understand what you’re trying to get at anyway.
What I can gather is that you don’t like, I’m assuming, losing Warchiefs like most Horde Players don’t. Which I can sympathize with. I think the constant game of musical Warchief Throne is incredibly stupid.
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Look, I’m sorry. And I’ll even admit I shouldn’t have taken that shot at Erevien in the first place. Yes, I wanted to needle him a bit, as it’s a bit of a meme around here, and that made him an “acceptable” target. That was wrong of me, and I didn’t think that the broadside shot I was taking would bother other people. I know I’m a big ol’ Miserable Mary but I don’t actually post with the intent of making other people feel bad. At the time I posted it, I viewed it in the same light as an earlier joke I made about how his posts are borne of jealousy that he wants to date Jaina, which is obviously not true. So yeah, I made a crappy post.
And thinking on it more, Lenastus is right. Maybe it wasn’t as much of a joke as even I intended it, because I don’t keep it a secret that I’m overall disappointed with racial options and stuff like that.
And I’m also sorry for “speaking in sarcasm” shot I took at you too. I was frustrated, but my comment wasn’t appropriate or called for.
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Having an on screen win against the Horde is integral to fixing the issues with the Night Elves which is why you see Night Elf Fans constantly pushing for it to happen. As I, and others, have stated a hundred times over that doesn’t require the Horde player base to experience such an event from the losing side like we had to when the Horde got to run rough shod through two Night Elf zones and torch a third zone to the ground.
That’s not what I’m asking for. I experienced it. It sucked a fat one. I don’t wish it on other players. Horde players should get to focus on Horde issues. Like making a home for the Forsaken in the EK or building up new leaders.
But if Horde Players can’t even accept the idea of the Horde taking an L that they don’t even have to experience firsthand themselves then there’s nothing more to be discussed until Horde Players decide to be more reasonable.
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And the saddest thing is you have convinced yourself you are NOT toxic. I have no delusions about being VERY confrontational and possibly a nightmare individual to deal with, but you… you DO think the stuff you sprout about is “good for the game” or worse “good for the players”.
Man, your DO ARE pitiful. And maybe I should stop encouraging your toxicity… but I don´t know If I have the strenght to do so tbqh.
Don´t waste your time in someone who came to a “how to fix the Horde” thread saying the first thing that would had to happen was to humiliate it.
I appreciate the attempt to defend me, but believe me, he/she won´t ever listen. And I have no problem with dealing with his kind.
Personally I have no issue even with the beating IF I get zero Alliance polluting my game afterwards… cause to pretend we Hordies have to continue to be nonexistant in “neutral” content after they get their revenge rocks off is plain rude.
English is not my first language.
I don´t like losing Warchiefs, I don´t like getting my racial leaders being portrayed as idiotic accesories to crimes for plot convenience just for them to “react late” against it NOT in a narratively coherent manner but using stupid devices like “the torture of muh girlfriend´s decades dead brother”, I don´t like to get the loses my fav faction got dismissed by player born arbitrary reasons (we DID lose Undercity and Forsaken fans DID lose their racial leader in a despicable manner)… I don´t like a lot of the things these writers have done towards the Horde. But that doesn´t mean I want Jaina to die nor similar stuff.
I just want to get development for my faction that doesn´t involved the villain bat AND that DOES involve them positively AND proactively when big bads come out into the narrative… is that too much to ask?
Dear, we can take the L. But just like I told you several times, don´t pretend to get “Carebear holding hands” content afterwards. Cause while you guys lost Teldrassil, you were fortunate to avoid despicable stuff like defending Sylvanas against a Teldrassil survivor -something we couldn´t avoid regarding Jaina in the Baine scenario-.
That´s the compromise some of us WANT. To be left ALONE after stuff gets dealt with. To get our character DEVELOPED, regardless if Alliance players would rather quest with another iteration of Alliance flavored characters in neutral content. NO MORE KHADGARS, BOLVARS, ETC. to fulfill Horde gameplay, tyvm.
Thank you Sarm, please PLEASE don´t forget this -yes, jokes can be hurtful for people too-. The best policy to deal while engaging with people you dislike is precisely that: engage. Fight with Erevien if that is a must, but please don´t mix the rest of us Belf fans on that fight.
And no need to apologize for the sarcasm remark, I´m perfectly aware I´m a volatile btch most of the time, I have no issue with you guys pointing this out.
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I understand what the point of what WoT was - to get to Teld and burn it. Which is why I left all of that untouched. Even further stating that we can keep the 8-1, that the Horde needs to push forward recklessly for the plan to to work. But in doing so, however, present the scenario in a far better light that allows the Horde to sound less dumbfounded and weak, while retaining, or even further exemplifying, the Night Elf’s strengths in one of their primary bastions.
Which, as you pointed out, still leaves it fairly unsatisfactory for a lot of players. Which reinforces the idea that it is Blizzard’s writing and lore folks that we really need to hammer home at. My example here was, in reality, just an attempt to polish a turd. We will not, and probably cannot, change what has already been put into the narrative. If we could, I would personally put my degrees to use and sit the entire narrative team through a genocide studies class and tell them to academically f-off.
As an aside, I think we need to really quantify ‘many horde players enjoyed’ because that wasn’t the response I gathered. There was initial/preliminary hype, sure, but once everything was said and done, it was pretty flat disappointment.
And I wish I could be there for those going at bat for the blue team. I also think there are conversations and arguments that can be made by what is ‘acceptable’ losses for the Horde or Alliance. Like, Lordearon is kinda just off the table hands down. There isn’t going to be some deus vult Scarlet Crusade backed by Stormwind knocking down Capital City again. Similarly, there shouldn’t be a ‘grand reclamation’ of the human kingdoms by the Forsaken from Lordearon to Stromgarde.
If the Alliance, for example, wants the Hinterlands - okay sure. But lets find a reasonable story for the (currently) only Forest Troll tribe allied to the Horde since the 2nd War. If we want to further codify the Alliance winning Stromgarde sure, but lets use our natural barriers to both of our strengths - Thoradin’s Wall. Similarly, Gilneas should be returned and the entity of southern Silverpine should look the demilitarized zone between the DPRK and ROK.
I, and I think plenty of other Horde posters, would be perfectly fine with these conversations. I think we all just need to take a level head to it, take a step back, and realize who actually puts us in these positions where neither end up satisfied.
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Is this english?
I just have a problem with revenge being the only solution to a story. Would beat the horde being a good solution if the horde wasn’t a playable faction? yes. Is beating a playable faction that was already beat enough and already got the L many time still the best solution? Not at all.
And when you talk about the horde player not being able to take the L and that we didn’t had experience it firsthand, i have a big problem with that because the horde did lose as hell. If the horde didn’t lost Undercity and 3 leader like they did, then you would be right, losing to the night elf would have been more than fair. But the horde did lost a city even if sylvanas is the one that blowing up. The horde still lost that battle and Sylvanas laughing doesn’t undo the alliance walking on lordaeron after forcing the horde to retreat. The horde also lost Dazar’alor and both warfront. The horde did lost 3 leader and a fourth important character. Even if none a them is a crushing defeat the same scale as teldrassil, all of them together still make us losing a lot.
So when you ask for us to take the L, you are asking for the people who lost as much as you to take a other L just so you, and only you can feel better.
And as for the revenge being the only solution, what are you doing about both blood elf and forsaken not being the one dealing with Arthas? What about the orc being left out for not only gul’dan but also Kil’jaeden? Of course player did not experience it at the same scale but are you saying that orc and blood elf aren’t going forward because of it? Their are still other way for the night elf to go on in a good way that wouldn’t require a already beating faction to be put in a worst state than night elf just so night elf can feel good.
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Which answer my point from before:
Good to know. Unfortunately, not having a degree in english leave us open to those kind of comment;
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If the quest texts did not mention that the Horde was taking heavy losses then by all means the attack by the Horde would have been strength exemplified. On the Alliance side the quest text made the Horde sound anything but dumb and weak.
It made them sound like an unstoppable killing machine.
The only hope the NEs had was for their army to come back and Stormwind to send help which they never did. Thats one of the bits in the story that the Alliance needs to be redeemed about which is what requires the Alliance to right the scales somewhat.
Yeah polishing a turd is a good analogy to it. This forum is honestly nothing more than rage outlet for people to air out their grievances. Its kind of therapeutic in a way. What comes next is what happens after shadowlands and some ideas are flying around about Yrel and the Light army but I doubt anything satisfying would come of that either.
Its like in BFA that battle for Dazaralor was suppose to be something positive for the war hungry alliance but it was all ultimately meh and pointless both during and after it.
Alliance needs to punish the Horde and establish its raison d’etre while the Horde needs new characters and story besides fighting the Alliance as its sole identity.
Will the next expansion do that? lets see.
Hey buttercup you could always just use spellcheck. Its free too.
Well, it must be, cause you´re responding to it. 
Well said, ergo my point about “player born arbitrary reasons” to deny stuff. Just because “Thrall promising Tyrande Sylvanas head” doesn´t seem “good enough” for some players as a gesture of the Horde moving forwards, this does NOT mean it isn´t a gesture of the Horde moving forwards. Or the abscense of Lor´themar et al prostrating on their knees in front of their “Nelf overlords” doesn´t mean they don´t feel bad about Teldrassil -heck, Lor WAS the first one apart from Saurfang to point out how Teldrassil was gonna haunt the Horde-. Or that Sylvanas finishing to obliterate Undercity does NOT mean the Forsaken lost it and that they are just refugees with NO leader on top of NO city on their narrative.
Stuff DID happen. And some of it hurt us just as bad as Teldrassil probably hurt the Nelf fans (I still can´t believe the devs think Calia is any kind of “olive branch” to the Forsaken fans… she´s the literal wet dream of the MHP posters, wtf?!?)… however I wonder how real is the “wisdom” saying that punishing further the Horde players to fix the ego of the Alliance posters will magically make us Hordies like our faction more.
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If that makes you happy my love.