A perfect example of that is her accepting Yukha, an orc shaman of the Earthen Ring, being the middle man between her and Thrall in Shadows Rising.
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Yea power Lorthemar up. Make him an expert spell breaker. So he can be equal yet opposite to Thalyssra in their relationship. Or if he has to combat Jaina in the future. Or if Keal come back to life, he wont be able to try to push Lorth around (for whatever reason)
Calia needs to be just a red hearing for forsaken leadership. Say she comes back finally from the shadowlands and finds they have moved on without her. They follow dark ranger Velonara now, because she stepped up while both Calia and Sylv left them. Voss still didn’t want to lead.
Calia can go off and live with the death knights and Bolvar.
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Now, you & I have had quite a few disagreements in the past - however & surprisingly so, a lot (Not all) of this I agree with, I actually wanted to post / point out or get addressed with a few of these too.
That’d be really cool. Imagine Rastakhan picking up on Bwonsamdi’s sass when making deals and paving the way for their people & being like “Oh I learnt - You will learn too!” to his subordinates.
They use to go on a lot about Shaman having connection to the 5th element (Spirit) and being attuned to the spirits (Not just elemental) - however didn’t really touch base on it during the class quests in Legion, ever so slightly tapped it in the book leading to Shadowlands and then in the actual expansion don’t touch or reference that in the slightest.
Having Shaman be a vessel of wisdom, and more attuned to spirits / Shadowlands lore would be very desirable.
That I disagree with, the elves of Quel’Thalas would still harbour a lot of animosity towards the Amani.
Best I could see, would be a pocket faction breaking off from the Amani — Much like the Darkspear had with the Gurubashi.
I agree with wholeheartedly but when I’ve stated such matters in the past, people (Actually, it’s just the same person / two of them) keep insisting things to remain destroyed to make losses ‘count’. Though having things cascade to a destructive implosion at the cost of destroying the game to appease their ego & preferred genre, I find rather disgustingly self-centered.
I like the rotating title; with like a ‘Passing Seasons’ ordeal.
I believe most players - even the ones that fight most amongst each-other in the forums can come to agreeing terms with that one. Especially with the amount of lies they told with & for BFA, it was outrageous.
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Not really. What warv want is for the Horde to face their sins, and atone for them, while the Alliance amps up the agression, presumebly with some kind of victory at the end, and with a bit of moral greyness thrown in.
What you want, is to make the Alliance suddently racist and imperialist, so that you can feel good about your disdain for them. You don’t want the Horde to atone, and you don’t want the Alliance to have any kind of victory for their agression. In a sense, you want the opposite to what Warv, me, and several others want.
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One thing this thread taught me is that the Alliance should be hilariously racist to justify Horde hatred of them.
But this also helps because now they can’t accomplish anything because winning as evil racist imperials against an ethnic Horde is a very bad look because racists are bad.
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Depends on the Troll. STV jungle trolls like the Darkspear haven’t SEEN an elves in the 10,000 years between the Sundering and the Third War, outside of the rare but not improbably high elf explorer/mercenary working for Stormwind.
Blood Elves DO feel distaste for trolls though. In BC, the Darkspear ambassador notes the citizens of Silvermoon giving him dirty looks, his guide admits that the constant wars against the forest trolls have prejudiced his people. given how little BC content is updated, the NPCs in question are probably still there, speaking the same quotes.
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Right, but excluding how awful it would feel for Alliance players, it doesn’t make much sense that the Alliance suddently would wake up and act like the Ke Ke Ke, when they haven’t acted like that ever. No, not even in warcraft 2 or 3.
I feel like this thread is falling into the same trap that Kyalin’s thread did. It tries to set up a scenario that Horde players like, and then come up with reaons why Alliance players should be on board. So far, it’s not going very well.
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Eh. 90% of the Thalassian Elf population is gone. Sure they’ll never really make up for being the reason why Amani Trolls were almost exterminated, but I don’t think they’d still harbor war grudges from thousands of years ago (at least a few dozen Troll generations, 2 blood elf generations) especially when they’ve suffered death.
Amani resentment instead probably survives (and we see it did in-game) due to “this was and should be our land” narratives.
Which always struck me as weird (your people are on their last leg and being shady is a priority?) and could just as easily be removed
Call it “character development”
Oh look, the Blood Elves don’t really care about the Amani Wars because they in general regret teaching humans magic and also have grown fond of the Trolls and especially the Zandalari.
What in this thread makes you even think it’s concerned about the Alliance players and how they feel?
I reiterate; they want Alliance players to play on a hilariously racist faction and feel bad about it.
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So far, nothing. But I find it a but funny that a thread titled “How Can We Redeem/Rebuild The Horde (Actual Horde Edition)” is so focused on how to make the Alliance worse. I feel like the title should be “How can we make the Alliance racist and imperialist so that Horde players can enjoy fighting them”. It seems more honest that way.
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I would not say hilariously racist, but either way, it’s too late for that to happen since the Alliance has been shown to not be like that anymore, and it would be weird if they went back to it.
The largest weakness with the Alliance had is that the races of the Alliance were not really close and there being prejudice against each other, but despite this, they worked together. There were exceptions of course, as the relationship between gnomes and dwarves.
If we look back to the time of vanilla/TBC, the Alliance races were described to mainly intermingle between the races during work, it was very rare for them to do so during their free time. Even in tbc with the addition of Draenei and Shamans to the Alliance, the shaman trainer in Stormwind is sitting off the path by the moat, her reason is how she was treated by the people of Stormwind due to her shamanistic practices.
Characters like the old Genn who called high elves for demi-humans and Daelinn used to be more the standard than the exception. I think a lot of Horde find that the Alliance being rid of what used to be the main flaw of the Alliance annoying, which could have been used for squabbling and provide more morally grey narratives to the Alliance. Especially when the Horde’s flaw keeps getting showed in their face and retreaded.
Another good narrative could be internal disagreements from nobles etc, like how the stormwind nobles refused to pay the stonemasons and thus creating the Defia’s brotherhood back in vanilla.
Still, it’s too late for the Alliance to revive their old hatred for other races. I’d say the last time we had the chance was MoP.
What I’d give to get some good old dwarf content again, with Ironforge literally having a policy of expanding their lands and gaining resources. Even if it means killing of the people already living there. That hardy doesn’t care about others if they get in our way attitude is what made me roll a dwarf back in vanilla, when one of the first quests is to kill off frost troll children to teach those pesky trolls a lesson back in the dwarf starting valley.
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You can’t.
Too much damage has been done by Blizzard.
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Unless we turn the game into a straight-up Black Comedy I don’t think anyone wants scenes of Alliance characters sitting around a grand dining table feasting on veal next to a cage half-full of crying tauren children while a waiter points that yesterday, the cage was full.
But, I think a character who looks at orcs and says, “You know I’ve met Thrall and he seems a fine enough fellow compared to the rest of his kind. Hmm, he was raised by us humans, right? Ah-ah, the problem with orcs is cultural then! It’s probably too late to deal with adults, so we’ll abduct-er, ‘rescue’ as many children as possible, and forcibly re-educate them into our own culture. No orcish values, no orcish language, no orcish names.”
…of course, the problem with re-creating the racist attempt at the cultural genocide of the Native Americans and Australian Aborigines in game with Horde races is less ‘that’s racist!’ than the fact that the narrative has so completely villain-batted the faction that such an normally repugnant attitude is 100% objectively justified in-game!
And that is a HUGE problem.
And that’s part of the reason why I think it really isn’t possible to redeem the Horde. The writers took things too far in their immature need for KEWL BAY-SPLOSIONS SO AWESOME LOOK DUDES so that there’s no way the Horde can justify it’s own existence anymore, at least not in any narratively logical way.
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The Horde simply moves far away from the Alliance to Northrend and builds a new nation there.
Gives them a fresh start far away from any Alliance influence(presuming the Alliance has abandoned Northrend). Allows them to change as a culture as they build in this new land rather than latching onto the old.
I would not say ever, sure there are a lot of outlandish visions in this thread but the Alliance was very much imperial and prejudiced against other races at the time of vanilla. Magni even issued a " sovereign imperialistic imperative" to claim more land and resources for Ironforge
Does not really matter though as it’s too late to go back to that outlook since we haven’t really been portrayed like that in a looong while.
On the point of actually redeeming the Horde, let them send aid to Alliance lands to help rebuild after the war. And pray Blizzard won’t force another Horde aggressor narrative.
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You know, they can’t make the Horde worse if they just End Times the entire World of Warcraft.
#TeamEndTimes
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Right, but that’s tame compared to what Baalsamael thinks the Alliance should be, or were. And it’s not really more imperialist than the Horde trying to get rid of the quilboar in kalimdor, or their constant agression and landgrabs against the Night elves, both of which happened in vanilla.
Agreed.
Horde players should not get any say in how the Alliance story should be written. You made this thread specifically to focus on the Horde. So stick to that and keep the Alliance out of your suggestions.
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Great way to expose the Horde hypocrites who cry about Alliance players not caring about how Horde players feel when they make lore suggestions that effect their preferred faction.