What we are being told is very different than what actually happens.
Villainbats are not really the point when it comes to military achievements.
And finally a good army general uses strategy. If commander is throwing his soldiers at an impregnable gate rather than flanking from behind he isn’t demonstrating strength but just stupidity.
I mean…the orcs did keep suiciding against the wisp wall…they arent very bright to begin with 
Dont forget the defenders also had homeground advantage in a frigging enchanted forest.
Its the one thing they have… we can’t even let them have it?
Which is also another aggravating point you just mentioned. The NE realistically know Kalimdor better than anyone.
If you want to redeem the Horde, how about start with the writers making a formal apology for
I am night fae and my goblin is already trying to save tyrande while also saving night elf souls from the maw.
That seems like a decent redemption arc, at least for the player character.
You know where would be a great place for this conversation about what you’d like to see for the Alliance?
The thread that was literally made for that purpose:
I wouldn’t say they need to be the masters of everything but the one or two enchanted forests they have dominion over? Yes.
Honestly Horde should have a huge fist pump moment when they marched through it with relatively minor losses that still allowed them to wage a global war after it.
I’m not a fan of echo chambers. Sorry if thats your thing Baal
You’re literally creating an echo chamber to derail a thread
That’s true and a fair point to consider
Character redemption =/= Faction redemption.
And even then the player is not really THAT guilty compared to the rest. They are just a passenger along for the ride.
If that’s genuinely what you believe, then we have nothing to discuss.
I’m literally having a discussion with Droite, until you came along to throw another pissy fit.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree than.
You are arguing the Horde did not win hard enough in WoT. I doubt you will have many people that agree with that.
Which was the point I was making. Maybe they think they didn’t burn the tree hard enough or something
I’d say it’s a lot closer than you think Droite, if the Night elven military is present at it’s full force, including ancients and wild gods. I’m not saying they could beat the Horde anywhere. But in their own lands, i’d say they have enough advantages to atleast make it costly enough where the Horde wouldn’t want to.
I believe droits point was the horde didn’t win anything in the fourth war, every battlefront was a loss. Every advantage the horde gained with the zandalari fleet was lost quick, the only victory being that the horde barely took darkshore and that was because of some lucky smugglers route through the mountains’.
At least you get the point I was trying to make
Same thing for the Alliance really.
This tug of war of territories didn’t achieve anything for Alliance either.
At least the Horde can point towards the extra story content and faction growth as a win if they liked it. But otherwise Alliance ended up where they used to be minus the NEs and another entry in their book of grudges.