Hot take: TBC is not a great expansion

[Enigmuh-mankrik]

that your opinion and you’re entitled to it

but it’s still wrong and you should feel ashamed of yourself in general

[Foxmumbler-westfall]

I don’t know, wrath had good lore. To be fair to the rest of it, I stopped at CATA and came back for Legion.

Leg was a blast and again I loved the story of Ill… the DH was super fun. I thought they would keep the weapon system but nope….

[Terrorrz-skeram]

I think people arent that happy with TBC classic because private servers did tbc a lot and well frankly… did it better.

[Wintere-emerald-dream]

i meant not retail dks.

[Huffpost-skeram]

Oh for sure, my bad

[Metalpunani-stormrage]

go play runescape

[Marli-faerlina]

@Foxmumbler-westfall

I don’t know, wrath had good lore.

Wrath marked the end of the “original” lore. It had arguably the best expansion cinematic Blizzard has ever done and it’s clear to me why people were drawn to that story.

@Foxmumbler-westfall

I stopped at CATA

Cata had its own litany of problems. For example: the old zones felt comfortable and they had a special draw and nostalgia for people. The Barrens in particular was legendary. But even Elwynn Forest, Redridge and Westfall were great. The Alliance quest chains in Duskwood were fantastic.

Cata came along and blew everything up… pretty much for the sake of blowing everything up. Thing is, no zone felt “nice” or “cozy” anymore. They all had to be post-apocalyptic because reasons. So I really don’t think people ever became attached to the Cata+ zones the way they did to pre-Cata zones.

And worse yet, there was really no way to visit to pre-Cata zones anymore so people couldn’t relive that.

@Foxmumbler-westfall

and came back for Legion

I can understand that. MoP had just terrible lore. The fact that it was pandas and monks I think turned a lot of people off. If it had different aesthetics I think it would be remembered as a really good expansion.

WoD was… the perfect example of why time travel is, always has been and always will be a terrible plot device.

I don’t think Legion started well but it ended well. Again, like TBC, it had the problem with all the space ships (sigh) but a lot of the systems were great. Honestly, I really liked the Legion mission table for example whereas BFA was worse and Shadowlands was a lot worse.

I didn’t like the borrowed power aspect of Legion artifact weapons. That’s unfortunately been a staple of all recent expansions (eg Heart of Azeroth, SL legendaries) but all in all Legion seemed like the last “good” expansion.

[Kumasama-westfall]

@Foxmumbler-westfall

wrath had good lore

Alliance and Horde, formerly crippled by the Third War, unable to even handle issues close to home without relying on mercenaries, suddenly find that they have all the resources and people they need to wage a war against the Lich King.

Such well-written, well-develop lore!

Not only that, but they even take the time to make a quick invasion the Undercity on the side.

Makes you wonder why they even rely on “adventurers” all the time when all they gotta do is pull a bunch of soldiers outta nowhere whenever there’s a new threat in Azeroth.

[Foxmumbler-westfall]

@Marli-faerlina

. MoP had just terrible lore

I never played MOP when it was live. Leveled through it and it felt like cultural appropriation for the sake of a bad attempt to attract new players. I’m not trying to start an argument over cultural issues, just that MOP zones felt like the devs where using Asian mythology because they had nothing else to draw on. But then Legion also poorly appropriated from Scandinavian mythology and IMHO was poorly done.

[Kumasama-westfall]

@Marli-faerlina

cinematic Blizzard

People confuse the “cinematic experience” with good storytelling.

Just because something “looks cool” doesn’t mean Wrath of the Lich King makes any less sense in relation to where the story was heading after WC3, Vanilla WoW, and Vanilla TBC.

[Lukesta-arugal]

Blizz has mismanaged TBC into the ground. Announcing the 58 boost on the same day they announced TBC Classic, then the drums changes (reverted), the 13 day pre-patch (they lied and said we would have an extended pre-patch), they also nerfed Honor rates into the ground during pre-patch because of some troll on these forums, then the Arena gear/rating changes, then the warp stalker mount, then the toy and other garbage. Merc mode added to BGs, they’ll probably add it to Arenas soon after faction balance/PvP realm population dies.

It is amazing how bad they have stuffed it up. Literally at least 8 things that were never supposed to be in the game.

[Grifball-grobbulus]

@Marli-faerlina

Flying is bad for the game, period. It destroys the sense of being in a world

It destroys *Your sense of being in the world.

Lol, your rant is full of your own opinions.
Half of them are garbage

[Khlause-kurinnaxx]

@Marli-faerlina

Itemization sucks. There’s almost zero reason to do Heroic dungeons as anyone who is remotely playing just gets full T4 gear. In original TBC this didn’t happen because players weren’t the min-maxers they are today and the raids were bugged.

Many Classes BiS comes from Heroics.

@Marli-faerlina

Flying is bad for the game, period. It destroys the sense of being in a world;

Not completely universally true, but they way they implemented flying being that its a replacement for ground mounts entirely was absolutely a mistake. Flying could have been a cool tool that’s got a cooldown attached so that you can use it, its faster but its also something you dont get to use all the time.

@Marli-faerlina

The lore is terrible. Space ships don’t belong in WoW. WoW needs a rewrite with the same systems and to totally retcon the Burning Legion out of it. Or at least, make them come from a plane of existence not on space ships;

The lore, even WarCraft Vanilla is all based on WarHammer the RTS, and Viking era conquest (WarCraft 1); none of what Blizzard has ever made other than some of the drama parts of the characters and their individual stories is anything new.

@Marli-faerlina

TBC levelling is awful (60+). Everyone complains about it. It’s just dungeon grinding and really boring. Levelling for many was the best part of Classic. Classic levelling with the lower TBC XP requirements and higher XP rewards is actually good;

You could level that way in Vanilla also, but yes the pace of the leveling experience HERE in this game is worse than Vanilla, but then again that’s something we also should contrast to the original TBC that had a much slower leveling pace that was later changed (nerfed) so that players to level cap faster.

@Marli-faerlina

• Racial trait imbalance was known to players since Classic. Why anyone should be surprised by this (including Blizzard) is beyond me. AV queues for Horde were 1-2 hours in Classic;
• Boosting probably made Blizzard a lot of money but it was (IMHO) hugely detrimental to the game. It allowed people to reroll to the latest meta easily and as such they weren’t invested in the game. Everyone knew these were the people most likely to quit or simply raid log;
• The 13 day prepatch (we missed the first day from downtime) made the experience worse and made people less invested in the game.

Agreed, Blizzard knew the past made the wrong changes and 100% flubbed it.

[Kotya-whitemane]

TBC is a solid expansion, one of the most popular expansions in Warcraft history. Perhaps you don’t think it’s good because it seems from your own statements that you’re one of the people who is just slamming content as fast as possible rather than taking the time to enjoy the game. You’re supposed to get your pre raid bis, not steamroll Kara with your Naxx geared toons just because you can. Outland questing is amazing and so is the lore. The story of the Draenei is intricate to the story of World of Warcraft, so yes spaceships should exist. I think you missed this point because you didn’t do quests. If your idea of playing the game is min/maxin/speed running all the content as fast as possible, perhaps it’s not the content that’s the problem but your approach to it

[Coacholsson-bigglesworth]

@Marli-faerlina

The lore is terrible. Space ships don’t belong in WoW. WoW needs a rewrite with the same systems and to totally retcon the Burning Legion out of it. Or at least, make them come from a plane of existence not on space ships;

wrong.

@Marli-faerlina

TBC levelling is awful (60+). Everyone complains about it. It’s just dungeon grinding and really boring. Levelling for many was the best part of Classic. Classic levelling with the lower TBC XP requirements and higher XP rewards is actually good;

wrong. you choose to dungeon grind. questing is great.

@Marli-faerlina

Flying is bad for the game, period. It destroys the sense of being in a world;

yes and no. double edged sword.

@Marli-faerlina

Bind-on-pickup crafted items is awful game game design.

wrong, makes professions way more impactful and cool.

@Marli-faerlina

Having Outland be separate to the rest of the world was a huge mistake. I mean there are exceptions (Ghostlands, Karazhan). It should’ve been woven into the world much like ZG was woven into STV;

yeah more land or use of existing land in azeroth wouldve been nice.

@Marli-faerlina

More compressed zones in TBC was likewise a mistake. It begins the road to retail of conveyor belt content. Empty space isn’t necessarily bad. It’s the difference between wandering in the wilderness and wandering around Disneyland;

i think theres plenty of space in outland, it is compressed but not too much. its mainly a problem with logged in server populations of TBCC being MUCH higher than original TBC.

@Marli-faerlina

Itemization sucks. There’s almost zero reason to do Heroic dungeons as anyone who is remotely playing just gets full T4 gear. In original TBC this didn’t happen because players weren’t the min-maxers they are today and the raids were bugged.

wrong about itemization sucking. right about players knowing everything about the game making only specific classes do specific heroics and general lack of heroic runs.

[Sotirios-pagle]

so much hate, there are many hotlines that can give you support please make a contact.

[Xyrtran-medivh]

If op thinks “dungeon grinding is boring” why not try 1-70 like I will since 1-60 is dead on spot because of the boost and there’s no legit dungeon runs for leveling except boosting for gold.

I get it you don’t like the expansion but probably the best way to get into this kind of expansion is to play it from 0.

[Negald-aggramar]

@Khlause-kurinnaxx

The lore, even WarCraft Vanilla is all based on WarHammer the RTS, and Viking era conquest (WarCraft 1)

I feel like I heard Warcraft was originally developed to be a Warhammer game.

[Andrew-netherwind]

@Pisaro-malfurion

There’s nobody in the old world.

I’m in the old world finishing up the 55-60 zones. Over halfway to 62. Good times… pretty chill.

[Twafflestomp-smolderweb]

Ummm… T4 is complete trash to many classes ya derp. BiS for several classes consist of crafted, heroic and old Naxx stuff. Not kidding. Hunters will be in their 4pc heroic set until late T5 or T6. Warlocks only wear one piece of T4 and will wear crafted until they can get full T5. Not just a few pieces but the full bonus and several of their BiS phase 1 pieces are Naxx pieces.