I think the rewards are causing a problem that people don’t really want to acknowledge but the level of gear players can get from less challenging content (than mythic plus) is good to a point that players eventually seek ways to get better gear which is like… leaps and bounds harder than they are doing. I have people I play with in tons of hero track gear looking to replace the last bits of champ they have and they never stepped foot in a mythic before. But unfortunately mythic is the next step for most people interested in continuing to progress. They aren’t being invited to heroic raid because they don’t have normal done or they get kicked for less than expected dps.
I just wish they find a way to make the slope less steep for mythic difficulty. Like the complete opposite of what the op is asking. Lol
Making it too hard simply seems to deter players from even wanting to step foot into things because people have high expectations or at least expect players to perform well enough in the content they are doing.
We just go from heroic which is faceroll…
To mythic that you die from things very quickly all of a sudden.
And also I think failing is a decent way to learn but be that as it is, it’s not giving people the chance to learn it properly without a group severely suffering for it. It’s TOO punishing imo.
At least there isn’t a timer in 0. But I dunno. I don’t think making it harder faster is better.
Season 3 dragonflight was fine as it was. Maybe a slight squish in levels would have been fine. But they over kill it.
The game only changed for people that liked lower mythics back then. lol
The idea would smooth out the stress moving though the levels. M+ is good system for the above average player when you hit that 10-11 range. But if you are an newer you most likely gonna get those toxic players any key. The % of players who actual do not finish an run and not be logged is much higher this season than any other past because of the new skill needed (tanks and healers).
I was trying to keep that progression for who want that less go go go mindset and still have it where the most m+ players are at. This system is not just giving gear. You still have to do the harder content for you for the better gear. Its would feel the same for the players who push.
Its have changed so much and the base knowledge you need is insane before even going into m+. On top doing everything an tank does. Its not just tanks even healers are done. so 2/3 of the roles are bad for most of the bigger pool of the playerbase (the average player) is awful to have.
Because They put themselves in an box. M+ is an unending system. Once you put a reward like portals in at an level like (20) to be the hardest and skillful back then well the game changed 20s where getting easier and easier over the xpacks now 10s are portals. For the playerbase now the average player is doing 10 much more. They can’t go back on that anymore. They can’t give an mount above portals makes no sense to there’s KSM for. So there are not much they can do. Besides moving portals farther along like 15 or 20 again but a lot of people will yell at them.
Thats why I made this to have that sense of progression as throughout and they can move stuff around and give more rewards to my M0s to m+ 5 or 10+.
Its meant to remove a lot of the stress form players with an system that we had since BC. Having dungeon difficulty matter and not just having m+ carry all the weight. Where the newer play can learn on their time not the game’s.
Thats what i want. To smooth this jumps by making people learn and gear as they go. Not just jumping into something they can’t handle.
Absolutely! It’s worth keeping in mind that this season is basically a bust at this point - M+ activity is down by 70%, basically, it’s game over, I’d say the launch was tremendously successful with 9M active subs going in, but however you define success for the “live service” component and sustained activity in the coming months, that part is clearly an utter failure.
Anyway, point is that most of who you will see commenting at this stage in the season are superfans who are running hundreds of high keys and are seriously committed to the game. But I agree totally that the real issue was in the lower keys and there being this massive jump in difficulty even just from H to M0 to M2, that scared off a huge portion of those 9 million subscribers. The poster child example for this is probably the last boss of Ara-kara, which has three abilities that will one shot you on M2, all of which you can basically ignore and heal through on Heroic. Not giving people a more gradual ramp-up to that level of difficulty is just poor tuning and poor design, plain and simple. We are 13 weeks and multiple patches into the season and Blizzard has seen fit to keep the status quo on that boss. I wonder how many thousands of subs they have lost because of it.
Actually if you want M+ to be harder then allow casuals to jump in at 9s or 10s. Having to play with people who don’t know what they are doing will make it a lot harder.
Playing with only experienced people makes it easier.
First, normal dungeons are used for leveling so that part doesn’t work for me.
Second, this is basically what they did with the squish so this would be like doing another squish.
Third, while removing the timer might be a good selling point the difficulty of the content needs to be appropriate for the reward so they’d have to scale it another way.
You are right its an tuning thing. That boss alone has killed groups more any raid boss. Its a harsh learning progress for anyone. Smoothing it out with the same mechs at the start in normal with mythic mechs is the only way to set up players to learn it. Most players going into a dungeon for the first time on normal or heroic does not want to read the fights. To them figuring it out is the most fun. So making them somewhat harder at the start of an difficulty will make players have to think or get more gear. We at that point now where people just out gear content that should be able do. 10s is the average now and people who getting myth is having trouble with 11-13s because the jumps are so huge.
while leveling it doesn’t effect it
yes into the system we had since BC. Making delves less powerful and smooth out the progress with a timer while learning
Its would smooth out the progression and when M+ hits it already the hardest content with the best rewards
Ksm might be clearing all heroics(6-8s basically the same io now)without a group wipe. Than portals at m+ 2 on time. Or something all new for 2s and portals later.
Terrible idea, look at how bad it went down this season with the changes they already made.
What makes keys as good as they are is that you can work through the key levels, work on getting better gear from lower keys, crests, stones, slowly upgrade and work your way into higher keys.
Further compressing the ability to gain gear by forcing people to use lower gear on higher difficulties is just going to alienate dungeon even further. If you want 3-4 different difficulties, go raid.
It would work the same as now as gearing now. You will have to do lower difficulties (keys) anyway to do the higher (keys) ones. Its the same. just different names with no timer.
Normal being as hard as current M0 would mean normal would be as hard as the old M10, no one 10 levels under could complete the current M0 or old M10, not a single person in the game. Imagine right now you get a level 70 and go attempt M0, how far do you think you would make it before you fall over dead?
People are already struggling as it is trying to do current M0 without being carried and out gearing it.
It wasn’t an choice that most players made to do it when the reward was better than anything else than m+ 2-7. theres was no reason to do it. People just skipped that content. Even blizz said delves was too powerful when it started.
Healers were forced to go dps in delves or find a group to do it. It was hell for them for the best reward at the time.
Exactly but people did it anyway. The choice of my idea of normal (m0s) is still open and have no timer. So if people wipe than they go again. We saw this when Mega dungeons started. They were harder but people learn them in thier time not the game’s. The only thing is an first time player can’t just jump into content they can not handle as ilvl and knowledge. This why m+ so toxic is the pool of players are so wide and wasting 30-40 mins is not right thing to do for anyone. This would remove the timer for those people who do not want to deal with that stress and you are forcing them to deal with that now. My M+ is set up as If you are already doing that level now it wont feel any different and thats average m+ player anyway.
That m0-10 range is just spread out to difficulties with no timer.
The intent is to make casual dungeon content a whole lot harder in order to force those people to git gud fast. I am going to take the existence of this thread as a sign that Blizzard is going to double down hard again on the changes that came in Season 4 scaling and removal of the progression that used to exist from normal → heroic.
Clearly what the game needs to inspire new players to do mythic+ is chaos.
Your changes are not intended for this group.
“We’re going to force you against your will to do this content you have already chosen not to do, and this won’t be stressful at all.”
Good luck with that.
LOLOL. I guess there are still too many people playing the game, and you need to fix that.
You’re right. I always figure them out in the next expansion. If it works for me, I’m sure that’s the ideal solution. That way people can play at their own pace. They won’t be pressured to play with players like you who have zero tolerance for less than elite skills.
This “I want to see people fail a lot and fail hard” isn’t going to be a great selling point for the game.