Raising post from the dead again.
Make horn raid wide and/or allow it to stack with might and/or make it’s duration longer and/or give it some other cool effect.
And for the love of god, at minimum make the horn buff be considered stronger than might, so that the noob ret pld who doesn’t have paly power (and probably doesn’t even have raid frames) doesn’t keep replacing it with might. The fact that each buff can override the other one is just silly.
Still wonder why they didnt make it function more like horn of winter for DK. Make it raid wide and have some sort of minor benefit that makes it worthwhile to refresh mid combat when all your rotation is on CD, like how horn of winter gives runic power, have mana regen like shamanistic rage or something… also should stack with might if they want this rune to be worth taking. If it isnt going to stack it should just be a skill book imo.
I don’t think it’s possible with the Era code.
Remember the original Aspect of the Lion, how it was affected every ally within like 20yrds of the hunter. I think that’s about as good as they can do without using TBC (or was it Wrath?) code base.
Would be better if it just gave the group/raid 5% mana over 10 seconds with a 2-3 minute CD. The fact that it takes over Might to basically be a Strength of the Earth/Wind totem is just silly. Nobody seriously runs this rune.
Classic runs on the Legion client. I am sure it isn’t that hard to code it as raid wide, as there are things that do work raid wide just fine.
Unfortunate about the code restrictions but at least a large radius to any ally could be better.
And i agree completely that it’s a joke of a rune, definitely a lot of things they could take from this thread to consider. I main DK in wotlk and a pally for my ally character so this rune was a let down to me from the start lol.
It’s not. It’s their stupid way of saying “Here’s Strength of Earth.”
It’s weak as crap and limited to party because so is strength of earth, and it’s exclusive with might because they can’t give Shaman a weak rune for might because no shaman would use it, since they are already broken beyond belief.
Horn of Lordaeron needs to be changed to match Shamanistic Rage. The fact that Shaman’s have a raid wide mana tide no matter the spec, but Paladin’s don’t is absurd.
Just the fact that Shamanistic rage is raid wide and this crap rune that isn’t used due to it overwriting Blessing of Might blows my mind.
Probably because
Martyrdom mana is raid wide
BoW/iBoW is raid wide 10 minute buff
Judgement of Wisdom is raid wide
Manatide and Mana Spring are both limited to the party, and have to be replaced every minute, or every time the raid moves 20 yards. (While costing 20-25% of what it will recover total for the caster if it lasts the whole minute.)
I wouldn’t care if Shammy rage got nerfed to 10% of the mana for raid. That would bring it closer in line with Martyrdoms contribution over the whole fight, but the amount of malding from the faction that already had the better mana recovery options both in efficacy and sustainability/mana cost, has me chuckling.
Horde also has the benefit of 1 person per group being able to instantaneously remove all poisons and diseases (which are prevalent in ST) on their group. You can even swap them in combat so you don’t need to spend additional mana. Alliance have nothing in comparison to this.
Martyrdom gives back such a minor amount of mana it’s not even comparable. Wisdom is nice, but it is a proc chance and can fall off easily since it typically only lasts 10 seconds, which is only refreshed by the paladin who cast it.
Shaman totems are immobile which is their drawback. They have added the ability to place them wherever you need to which is pretty big, but it would be nice to have Totemic Recall for sure. So at least you could get back some mana whenever you start ranging them. Granted this is about paladin issues, while there are still holes in the shaman toolkit, that needs it’s own thread.
Martyrdom equates to less than 1 mana per second. Ret paladins also provide far less damage than shamans, so no one is stacking these to even make it add up. Don’t think people realize how little mana it restores.
Most raids have 4 shamans, meaning Mana Spring is a raid wide buff.
Is about 5 mana per second. This literally has no benefit to healers either, they’re not attacking the mob, meanwhile shamans can just set it and forget it.
A single shamanistic rage is out performing all 3 of these abilities combined(and you can chain cast shamanistic rage), and that’s not even factoring Mana Spring or Mana Tide totem if you run a restoration shaman in your healer group.
And horde had nothing in comparison to Paladins absolutely turning off Aku’mai’s tank mechanic.
I don’t recall hearing any horde demanding bubble over it.
Horde has no equivalent.
Agreed, I just bring them up because Hurhur brought it up as though the alliance don’t compare…
I don’t think complaining about literally 1 mechanic on 1 boss is the same as being able to dispel on every single boss at the press of 1 button on several people. You are really stretching here. People have demanded that bubble be removed since the start of WoW or that Horde get the equivalent of it. So again, bad argument.
At worst, Shamanistic Rage is double. If you have an equal amount of shaman to paladins in a raid, you’d have a far bigger advantage. It would take 3 paladins to get above 1 Shamanistic Rage.
While Horde have no comparison to Judgement of Wisdom, they have way more mana regen in the raid that is reliable overall. Horde aren’t going OOM most fights while Alliance are playing on fumes. An entire raid being easier for one faction than the other is a bit messed up. One or two fights, sure.
It’s a stretching session then since we’re going to discount the raid magic/poison/disease dispells (1 of each, per GCD) that Paladins have.
Horde only has Priest raid dispel.
That’s why I said Martyrdom could be improved- it just doesn’t need to be equivalent since Paladins have much better mana recovery options than horde aside from Shammy rage.
Shammy rage is better than Martyrdom, BoW, and JoW individually
but Shammy Rage vs all 3 of them is less so. Adding Mana spring doesn’t help much either.
(If you bring 1 shaman, you get one mana spring totem, which costs about the same as BoW, but lasts 10% of the time, only works on party, and doesn’t move with the fight so you can’t just drop the totem before the fight, drink, and forget it. It costs 20-25% of the mana it gives the Shaman back…)
We still OOM.
But y’all do need more paladins, and a bit stronger Martyrdom mana return.
While I do dispel myself and others as a prot paladin, it’s typically up to the healers to do as much as they can. That said, Holy Paladins are a nearly extinct spec. There are more dwarf females in the game than Holy Paladins I would bet. Again, 1 shaman can totem an entire group or raid if the group is sweaty enough. 1 Global on 5 people is far more powerful than 5 globals on 5 people.
While Shamanistic Rage might be better individually, as we’re looking at the whole kit, you can have a Resto shaman provide Mana Tide. Not to mention, it’s not always possible for healers to dps on fights which lowers JoW on it’s usefulness of giving healers mana. Tide doesn’t require anything other than a button press by 1 person. I do think Blizzard should have never made it take up the Water Totem spot though.
I don’t think the game needs to be completely homogenized to the point of making 1:1 copies, but some sort of middle ground is great. I do think Shaman should get magic removal with that said.
Oh man, it’s almost like you were wrong about all of this lol. sHaMaNiStIc RaGe IsNt BrOkEn At AlL
On a party basis specifically, the totem is better, I won’t argue against that- but it is offset by Paladins being able to do other things such as Dispel and also different party damage soak mechanics. (Horde doesn’t have a BoP equivalent to toss on a healer if an add decides it wants them.)
I like that the Shaman Dispel is offensive versus the Paladin friendly.
It leans into the Shamans being much more aggressive of a playstyle. (Live by the Axe) as opposed to the paladin swiss army knife approach.
And yes, I’ll have a whisper with the ancestors about the state of Holy Pally- it looks boring, though it seems to be BiS for tank healing according to WCL. The upper Quartile of Priest (runner up) is below Holy Pally Median, and there are slightly more Holy Paladin parses than Resto Shammy.
Now please, grab yourself a coloring book and have a seat in the corner.
Well, BoP doesn’t get better the more paladins you have and it causes Forbearance on a 5 minute cd. It’s hardly that useful.
Well, then I guess don’t complain about Alliance having an additional defensive dispel? Kind of an odd swap in stances here.
Paladins have always been strong single (dual healers with beacon), but Shaman and Priest can optimize to do this role as well. However, Paladins cannot optimize to be AOE healers currently. Not to mention, their runes are basically non-existent. It’s kind of sad that they have refused to give Holy Paladins something decent for 3 phases now, but here we are.
Not for the same healer, no.
I’m not complaining about Paladins having those things. I’m pointing them out because the general train of thought for the forums currently is “Paladins useless and helpless, Shamans break Raids and PvP.”
I have a decent understanding of Paladin from back in original wrath. It’s what I learned to play the game on before discovering and falling in love with the Shammy class fantasy. Yes, it’s not the same as SoD Paladin, but it retained a lot of the same toolkit, it didn’t have the incombat Repent either… lol
Paladin is a Solid Center with an answer to everything personally, and almost everything within a raid group or party.
Shaman is pure aggression with the only native defensive being to deflect one spell. (And the addition of something to keep it from being rooted, and a 20% DR CD.)