the funny thing about the Gilneas comparison is. We know for a fact that there are Forsaken that are Gilnean humans not Lordaeronian, it is just as much their home as the Worgen.
it genuinely makes more sense for Gilneas to be a sanctuary city than it does for Bel’ameth, but thats been justified by both factions helping to make it and the sentinels keeping a close eye on horde adventurers
See, I feel like it’s just kind of long past this point now.
The original narrative vision for what the Horde is or was initially meant to be has long been lost at this point. There’s no real way to explore a Horde narrative anymore because the original vision is lost and now Blizzard is trying to frantically pick up the pieces and make something that isn’t just ‘Horde evil under big bad leader.’
I’d love to see some justice given to the Horde, but I honestly don’t know how Blizzard would ever do that. I feel like at this point we should focus more on the individual nations within the Horde itself rather than the entire ‘Horde’ as a conglomerate because many of the little individual nations that make up the Horde get overshadowed in that kind of system.
I also feel that within the current faction system in particular we barely get to see how these individual nations that make up these factions get along. Namely, why do we never see any conflict with Dwarves or Nelves? Why do we never see any conflict between High Elves and Nelves? A lot of these kinds of inter-factional rivalries or tensions get left behind and forgotten about, which I find pretty tragic.
There’s so many different and diverse nations that make up these factions that binding them together under one big conglomerate that acts within unison removes all form of nuance.
I recognize that this is largely my own perception of it, but personally I feel that writing for the individual nations which make up these factions instead of the larger general faction would create a more interesting and dynamic narrative.
I also don’t really hold the opinion that the default for stories going forward under a ‘no faction’ system would necessarily be completely bound around Stormwind. Should also mention I’m not saying that the factions should dissolve lorewise, I’m mostly for getting rid of the factions as a gameplay mechanic that effects the story. I just think having avenues for people to interact cross-faction is a good thing, and that getting rid of the faction language barrier would be a good thing for everybody.
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I want to snip this bit out because I feel that factions aren’t the fault why stuff like this has never been shown, because Blizzard was more than willing to go the opposite extreme with showing the horde fracturing and failing itself so many times. Rather, I think they just aren’t interested in showing division between alliance races because they’re the “default good guys”, and I have no reason to believe that would change even if the factions were abolished.
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Yeah, that’s fair enough. Tbh It’s largely based on my own feelings rather than any hard coded evidence on it, since we can’t look into the minds of Blizzard ourselves. I don’t doubt that Blizz has an overall feeling like they want to strafe away from inner-conflict within the Alliance because they perceive them as the ‘good guy’ faction. I do feel that the faction system as pushed toward the writing of depicting the Horde as the ‘Anti-Alliance’ and the Alliance as the ‘Anti-Horde,’ though. Feel like that mindset is what drove us to a lot of the ‘Horde as bad guys’ plotlines which have popped up, along with the need to restructure the Alliance to be similar to the Horde (High King and all that).
On this topic though, I find it interesting how in the early Warcraft RPG sourcebook from 2003, they detail the Alliance as being the faction with the most inner-strife and tension whilst the Horde is depicted as the faction that works with a better sense of overall unity. Weird how Blizz never picked up on that, considering how much that was pushed in War3 (with Daelin vs. Jaina) and how many concepts from the original RPG were used for WoW.
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They even went the extra step to purge disharmony from the alliance later on. IIRC, the original reason why Gilneas was barely part of the old wars and broke off of the alliance was because Genn was trying to be an opportunist to make land grabs of other alliance territories when the other kingdoms would suffer more casualties, and didn’t want to put out any money for the internment camps at all in favor of just killing all of the orcs for being monsters.
Then for Cataclysm, that got retconned into him only withdrawing because taxes were bleeding the kingdom dry, as well as suddenly having owned territory in Silverpine when it was previously believed to be all Lordaeron.
The ironic thing is that supposedly, one of the reasons for adding worgen were to be the alliance’s answer to the forsaken - a dark, divisive race. But their implementation turned them into “the good ones” while the horde are the justly-maligned monsters and now you occasionally get people praising that.
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In the fullness of time I’d actually argue Dalaran is a cautionary tale of how not to do neutral factions. On paper, it was a fair idea - an Alliance kingdom that tolerates the Horde due to its closest historical ally swapping factions - but look at it nowadays, brimming with violet-robed orcs and trolls and mag’har and tauren; for so long the Kirin Tor felt like a neutral faction that its nominal affiliation with the Alliance was just quietly phased out entirely. That’s really not a vibe I want repeated with Amirdrassil/Gilneas/Neo Silvermoon/Forsaken Capital City.
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That’s fair, and a good reason to be against it because I’d personally like to keep faction identity and have racial capitals separated even if neutrality takes over in the greater narrative.
My statement was more of a comment on borrowing the mechanics of only allowing certain parts of the city to be accessible by the opposite faction (if at all) and not the specifics of Dalaran as a neutral city losing it’s flavor in a story capacity.
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Provided.
Proof to the point that they are unmoved, given the night elves literally could not remove the orcs from Splintertree Post or the Lumbermill.
No, you don’t.
You lie until I get bored of rebutting your lies.
Like when you kept screaming there was a Nelven Night Warrior on Azeroth before Tyrande when we objectively know that isn’t true, and one of the oldest (if not the literally oldest still contiguously) night elf on the planet does not know this heroic champion’s name.
Dalaran’s a weird case to me because the fact that it went full-alliance for a time feels like the whole place is permanently “stained” as far as considering it neutral. It absolutely put me off of the mage order hall as a result, and I was relieved to see it gone when Legion was over.
The fact that the Kirin Tor made a return for Dragonflight actually disappointed me.
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It also is kinda noteworthy that the villains of the storyline aren’t really Alliance enemies and are generally moreso enemies of the Scourge who the Alliance also doesn’t like.
… so then why do multiple characters like Maeiv, a high ranking member of the Sisterhood 10,000 years ago, talk about there having been a prior one in 8.1… we don’t know the name of the dumb ‘First Ones’ but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist LMAO as much as i wish they didn’t
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What’s funny is even in this expansion Blizzard couldn’t keep Dalaran’s allegiance straight. We’ve got the pardoned Arcweaver in the orc heritage quest talking about how Thrall couldn’t afford to execute his race’s answer to “the Alliance’s Kirin Tor,” which would be an interesting sentiment were it not for the hefty representation of Horde race mages in DF’s Kirin Tor content. Including another, more memorable orc mage.
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They don’t.
They talk about a legend.
A legend that they existed for.
A legend that they existed for and do not remember.
They do not know who this person is, because it was a made up story.
You use the word objectively here, but I don’t think it means what you think it means.
There is no lore statement that there has never been a Night Warrior from Azeroth before Tyrande. Blizzard has also never directly stated that there has been. All we have in the lore is legends:
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I dunno. Seems like there absolutely was a night warrior around on Azeroth before Tyrande to me!
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The Horde had already abandoned both after the Siege of Orgrimmar according to A Good War, but they came back again following the Horde’s march through Ashenvale in the War of the Thorns.
We don’t know if Gorgonna has removed the Horde from there since becoming leader of the Warsong since Exploring Kalimdor or not, given the Orc Heritage Armor questline takes place years after.
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The original Nightwarriors appear to of been from before Azashara’s empire, they carved out the original Kaldorei kingdom she turned into a supercontinent spanning empire with her new fancy arcane magic. So, It was long before anyone alive presently.
Also they were not named because Blizzard left it intentionally vague so they can use it as a plot thread any time they think it be cool to go back to it.
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Listen there was an incident involving a duck, banana, two fire elementals, and a banjo. Rumors say one of the Horde’s mightiest was involved, but the Alliance should just fundamentally ignore any claims as such.
The Gnomes that should be in Orgrimmar are the ones for Gnome Football.
Don’t worry, they get paid well… Though Grimmel is starting to concern me. He keeps asking the Tauren to drop kick him into the trolls
We don’t know what to do with this.
Hopefully with Metzen back, we can get it.
Zoram’gar Outpost was abandoned by the War of Thorns, while Mor’shan Rampart was held by the Alliance. Splintertree Post isn’t even mentioned in A Good War.
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It’s also implied they were already dead when they became Night Warriors, or were blessed after death, and turned into stars to join Elune’s army.
My son.
We have Chronicle.
You can lie all day every day but you’ll still be completely wrong. You argue and lie in favor of night elves every time you can, and you try to outlast anyone in the argument to wear them down.
There is absolutely no evidence at all of a night warrior beyond a legend that Maiev herself, one of the oldest creatures in existence, deems a legend. Maiev and Cenarius do not stand witness to this night warrior because this night warrior did not exist.
Maiev herself states it’s a legend.
Chronicle is a poor lore source for what happened before Azashara. There is a giant gap between “Elves Exist” and “Azashara takes the throne and begins her arcane research with the highborne”
We have nothing on what happens in between those two points in time.
also remember canonically Chronicle is now a biased in game titan propaganda piece. Why would they speak of the powers of Life?
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