No, you didn’t. You just said Blizzard doesn’t take it as canon. But it does. So?? You’re just trying to discredit it, because night elves aren’t perfect in it.
It was a series of successful Horde attacks until the Alliance player arrives.
Well, not me personally. I wanted to kill a ton of elves in sovereign Orc land. I got to do that.
Yeah well, we don’t have anything that can counter Malfurion or Tyrande. C’est la vie.
I didn’t say anything about blaming them for anything. They attacked a foreign power. Amadis said they don’t do that.
Your points all hit on something so important. When telling the story of the Night Elves, Blizzard has failed to adhere to the most critical story-telling rule ever: show, don’t tell.
Honestly, that’s the problem! That’s why the forums are constantly arguing over this! Because Blizzard keeps telling us, “The Night Elves are like so cool, guys, here’s hours of quests about them losing.” All of those who aren’t night elf fans are like, “See? The elves are cool! Why are you complaining?” And night elf fans are like, “We keep getting screwed!” Because, what Blizzard are showing us and what they are telling us are entirely different.
And I agree with your post so emphatically, so vehemently, I don’t want to add anything to this conversation, I just want to indulge my grievances by echoing everything you said, because you were exactly right, and I wish I could have said it myself.
This.
Amen.
SERIOUSLY, YES!
This is the next sentence, but I thought the first one was so real, I had to call it out specifically. This is also a yes.
Exactly! The presentation is awful.
The presentation is AWFUL.
This is an interesting idea, and without having given it any thought, I am in full support.
First, it sweeps multiple plot points under the rug, as if they never happened. The most glaring example is Maiev’s Murder spree and attempted assassination of Malfurion.
I don’t see a small congregation Turing the tide of a major campaign. I just don’t find that believable.
No it wasn’t. The Horde failed the attack on Raynewood due to the Dryads and Keepers of the grove. They started fire bombing Astranaar but had yet to even attempt to assault the city. And the hero of Azeroth (Which is canonically described as reinforcements from Darnassus, heavily implying they are canonically Kaldorei) arrives to turn the tide at Maestra’s post. The Horde had one victory in Ashenvale, and that was Silverwind refuge… but they lost that by the end of the zone.
Sovereign or land huh? You apply that same logic to First Nation’s Peoples?
Even worse than failing to contend with a civilian army, you failed to contend with two elves.
Dude the game doesn’t address tons of book plot points. A good example of which being Vol’jin in pandaland monk temple training. It was… what, four years before we saw anything in game about that?
That doesn’t make the book not canon. That makes it not worth talking about in the zone’s storyline.
Raynewood is just about the only place they hadn’t successfully nabbed.
During the Cataclysm, the Horde invaded Ashenvale Forest, setting up a camp at Hellscream’s Watch. From there, a group called Hellscream’s Hellions attacked Astranaar with wind riders. Horde adventurers also bomb the town, setting it on fire[5] in a victorious assault.[6]
The Alliance quest for this?
, Astranaar’s burning!
Quickly, take this bucket of water and put out the fires before there’s nothing left!
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Astranaar%27s_Burning!
Cataclysm
Summary
Cataclysm This section concerns content related to Cataclysm.
The Horde military sent troops to reinforce Mor’shan Ramparts, which had fallen victim to a renewed effort by the Silverwing Sentinels to drive out the Horde from Ashenvale. The Silverwing sentinels weren’t just laying siege to the Mor’shan Ramparts, however: they were also launching simultaneous attacks on Splintertree Post and the Warsong Lumber Camp. Eventually, the Horde adventurers and military were able to break the siege of the Ramparts. Pushing north from the Ramparts, the Horde took control of Silverwing Outpost, and using Kodo Caravans, they were soon able to break the siege of Splintertree Post. An orcish warlock poisoned the forest heart, which struck a huge blow to the Sentinels. Horde covert operatives killed the commanders leading the siege of Warsong Lumber Camp, thus bringing the alliance offensive to an end.
After the sieges of Splintertree and Warsong Lumber camp were broken, eastern Ashenvale was under complete horde control, save for Forest Song. The Horde armies pressed westward, taking control of Silverwind Refuge by using a corrupted form of a water elemental, and also began an attack on Raynewood Tower and Raynewood Retreat, killing many of the druids and sentinels stationed there. However, the Horde was not able to deliver the finishing blow at Raynewood, as the Druid leader continued to revive the Dryad defenders of the post. The Horde even started firebombing Astranaar, and with victory in sight, they moved in to take Maestra’s Post, one of the few remaining Alliance encampments. If Maestra’s post fell, all of Darkshore and eventually Teldrassil would be vulnerable to continued Horde attacks. While the siege of Maestra’s post was beginning, the Horde engineers at the captured Alliance base of Silverwind Refuge were finishing up a giant bomb, designed to be used on the Night Elves in Stonetalon Mountains. Many of the Horde battalions started to move south to reinforce Krom’gar’s army in Stonetalon, bringing the bomb south with them.
This success was short lived, however, when the mobilized armies of Darnassus were able to break the siege of Maestra’s post, and pushed the Horde out of Astranaar. After pushing the Horde out of Astranaar, the Alliance armies reinforced Raynewood retreat, breaking the siege there by taking on the shade of the Ancient spirit of Shadumbra, and killing many horde soldiers and destroying their demolishers in the process. Alliance heroes rebuilt Dartol’s Rod which allowed them control over the Furbolgs near Silverwind refuge, using them to weaken the Horde army there enough to allow the Sentinel’s to retake the camp. The alliance military moved back eastward, cleansing the tainted forest heart and killing the Horde overseer at the Lumber Camp, along with a Sin’dorei Ambassador. At this point, only pockets of horde resistance remained, bringing the war full circle, in favor of the alliance.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ashenvale#Cataclysm
We didn’t fail to contend with a civilian army (and also the demi god Malfurion Stormrage!), Akiyass. We won the War of Thorns.
the difference here is these are major plot points actively being ignored. If they can ignore it, I can too. I also don’t find it believable… And I am a fan of holding Blizz accountable for their BS. I am not going to eat the turd they are trying to shove down my throat.
plus all the places I mentioned lol
Conducting a successful air raid isn’t conquering an area. We see first hand they it was not conquered.
TLDR
A series of almost wins is a series of defeats.
And failed every objective, sacrificing every strategic advantage it offered. What the Horde achieved was a major loss of life and resources, gaining nothing.
Maiev is in no way major or relevant to the plot of Ashenvale’s zone.
They didn’t ignore it. They just didn’t put it in the game, because it had all already happened.
One thing I want to touch stone on here. No matter how much you and I disagree on anything, I want you to know that you should always hold them accountable.
The horde successfully nabbed every single area except for Forest Song and Raynewood before the Alliance player arrived.
A series of wins met by a series of defeats. You keep forgetting that the Horde player did all of that, and you didn’t stop them. You cleaned up the mess after they left.
I mean, we didn’t. Sylvanas sure screwed the pooch though. But let’s be real. She always intended to burn that tree.
Explaining why playing a character with less than altruistic ambitions doesn’t mean the player is infact evil.
I never said so… But she is in that book, which makes the legitimacy of the entire book questionable.
Oh yeah, sure… Try to murder Tyrande’s husband, a war hero of the Kaldorei… water under the bridge. Now they are palling it up in Darkshore without any mention of it at all.
They ignore it… for good reason, because its really stupid.
No they did not… they failed every attack except SIlverwind Refuge…
They didn’t win to begin with.
They didn’t do anything… Raynewood was a failure, Astranaar was never captured, neither was Maestra’s Post… the Horde didn’t “Nab” a single one Lol
didn’t kill Malfurion, didn’t capture Darnassus… Which was the entire point.
Sure… but not for the Horde… that was not a good thing for the Horde… It actually really hurt the Horde.
Sylvanas didn’t care about the cost because more souls to feed the Maw.
Oh, you were Roleplaying? Why were you Roleplaying?
It happens before the zone. Are you under some mistaken impression that Maiev is now permanently in Ashenvale across all timelines at all times because she was in the book?
It’s been nine years since Cataclysm came out, dude. Multiple people have quit, got laid off, and hired. Blizzard forgets its own crap all the time. That doesn’t make it not canon, it makes them bad story tellers.
Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.
I never wanted it, so turning the world stump into a cinder pyre is fine with me. In either outcome, the night elves were powerless to do anything about it.
Sure, I agree.
100%
Because this is a roleplaying game.
I wanted my team to win.
Sigh… I am not sure how you are struggling so hard with this…
The legitimacy of the book is questionable, therefore everything in the book is questionable… Get it?
That is their problem, not mine. If they want me to take their story seriously, they have to present it seriously. I do not see the book as a canon source because it presents questionable information. There is also nothing that says I have to accept it as canon either. Hell, if Danuser can say Chronicle is only a bias perspective and not necessarily truth, I can apply that to the trash heap that’s wolfheart.
nou
nou
nou
What you want doesn’t matter. The goals set by Saurfang was not met… the mission was a complete failure strictly BECAUSE Teldrassil was burned.
Managing to cost the Horde as much man power and resources as they did, despite being untrained and outnumbered is a weird way to be powerless.
Then go to World’s End Tavern and spare me from this hell.
And during Siege of Orgrimmar the Horde was still invading Night Elf lands. And after Siege of Orgrimmar the Horde no longer was, so the Night Elves left Orgrimmar alone.
I disagree with that line of thought. Leads to some slippery slopes like
“Well Golden lied to us in Before the Storm, so maybe she lied to us in Elegy and A Good War.”
Until the tree burned, which cost them more.
The civvies were not the deciding factor. Malfurion was.
I’m not roleplaying on the forums. You asked me why I wanted to claim orc land. That was the answer.
You’re factually, objectively, and completely wrong. You never stopped the Horde player from completing any of their quests. You merely mopped up the mess of night elf settlements they left in their wake.
The difference is one establishes a point of contention between two characters that is never mentioned again, which is problematic considering character motivations and the gravity of the deed. The other is just detailing things that already happened.
Debatable, actually. Though you are probably right. But that genocide was not the Horde’s victory condition. We already agreed that it was bad for the Horde.
… Uh… Okay again, orc land? Is that how you feel about Land taken from First Nation’s peoples?
No I am not… I have explained why, your only response is “wrong”
