I’ve never met someone who argued so vehemently, yet also managed to be so ignorant of the lore.
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Yeah I found this pretty problematic.
“Let’s turn the genius peaceful gorilla into a giant rage monster so we can let him loose on our enemies.”
While smart he was naieve and it really felt like he was being taken advantage of.
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You realize when you quest Horde and Alliance characters may show up at different times right?
For example when you quested in Stonetalon you virtually beat the Alliance and bombed their last major holding and the quests end for the Horde.
But canonically the Alliance player begins where the Horde ended and the counter-attack begins.
So just because you did not see it, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
I dont remember exactly who asked me to kill the Gorillas but the goblins definitely asked my help to mine their Kajamites and the Goblin near the Direhorn place told me on the downlow some Dinos needed killing for some experiment of his despite the fact that the Zandalari told him No.
I don’t get what you peeps get out of willfully ignoring facts.
Because you’re taking two different quests and trying to conflate them. The Horde player never harms the gorillas.
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The Goblins definitely mine the Kajamite. I believe the poster’s point was that the peaceful Gorillas that the Horde encounter leave that area at the end of questing, after we free them and kill the hostile king.
So when the Alliance come in afterwards, it’s only the previously-hostile Gorillas who are in the area. I believe they even share mob names. So yea, the Horde poaches them. But that really isn’t the worst thing either faction has done against hostile “beast races”.
I THINK this is the Growth Hormone quest. I could be wrong though, but that’s the only thing I remember over there that sorta fits the description.
The first part of that questline has you collecting fresh carrion that’s just laying around. The second part involves killing the flying dinos for the Direhorn bits they’ve eaten.
I really wouldn’t call any part of that quest poaching. The only animals we have to kill as part of the quest are the flying dinos. And the Zandalari send you there anyway to steal eggs.
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Yes, I have forgotten those quests–in fact, I’m not even sure which quests you’re referring to, so titles would be helpful. Is there text in them that tells the Horde PC they are doing bad things? Because that’s what this thread is for.
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I don’t think there is for the Gorilla one. I think the last thing the Horde knows about Da’kani Gorillas is when they kill their king and help free the handful of peaceful gorillas who are being imprisoned for their pacifism. In Horde questing, the Da’kani Gorillas are absolutely bad.
The switcheroo with King Grond is only ever seen by Alliance, I think.
As for the Goblin one… maybe? The quest that starts it is this one: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Direhorn_Growth_Hormone_(quest)
However, I don’t think there is any real poaching going on. As I mentioned, the only thing we end up killing are those flying dinos, who’s eggs we are already stealing. It’s never shown as a bad thing.
On the flip side, the game does ultimately punish us for it. When the Hormone is applied, our Direhorn grows exponentially and all the Zandalari are super impressed. However, further down the questline, it goes wrong: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Side_Effects_May_Include…
It’s made clear that trusting the Goblin and using the Hormone was a bad idea. Who could have guessed?
And the chain even ends with this:
<Beastlord L’kala peers mistrustfully at Alexxi, then back at you>
None of this was necessary. Go. I need time to determine what is to be done about your direhorn.
As far as I know, that’s it. I don’t think the chain continues past that. Kinda anticlimactic.
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Pranks are mean, but when someone tries to kill you for playing a silly prank…well, I think you’re justified in defending yourself. You can avoid killing them entirely by simply running away like any good prankster would. That’s what I do.
But tbh, the NPCs dying is likely just lazy programming. They could have simply had us knock them out, but that was probably too much work.
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Thanks for the breakdown. I don’t see anything there that implicates the PC as a Horde member, so I don’t think it’s part of the BfA shame effort.
Do you have a quest title for the idol one?
If you covered the “shame” aspect of the Grong encounter in the raid, I think that probably covers this well enough, as that’s the part that the Horde player directly interacts with.
The questline as a whole throws massive shade on the Horde by the writers, but I think only the last part (the raid) is where you see any direct shaming.
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It’s not on the list, largely because I’ve only done that particular raid as Alliance. I thought the only shaming part (“anathema to the noble soul”) was on the Alliance side?
Though even then, our leveling story was actually failing to stop G’huun so that both sets of players can do the raid.
It has been a long time that Blizzard has written a story were the Horde are the protagonists.
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That was the change in BfA. Each side did bad stuff to the other (and no, this isn’t another “Jaina did nothing wrong thread”) and we the villains to each other. BfA changed the Horde into the objective villains.
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in a twisted sort of way, he was in a way vindicated in a certain point of view.
“Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you.”
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8.2 looks like it will expand this thread a lot!
“You suck, Horde!” - A message from Actiblizzion Entertainment.
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Even more ironic despite all the moral signalling that the Orcs and the Horde are alright now in WC3. Daelin was totally on point with the Orcs and their Horde.
Is Horde’s sole value “Alliance can’t do everything alone so they need the Horde to pull some weight too”?
I guess so.
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Well, if Legion was anything to go by, that doesn’t even feel valid anymore. ![:frowning:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/frowning.png?v=6" ":frowning:")
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Yeah blizzard kind of pretty much flipped that and actually made his outlook look justified. It was part of the reason I found Garrosh such a disaster and felt he did a great deal of damage to the Horde. Even if it wasn’t in a measurable in game power factor, he had damaged the fragile and carefully cultivated concept that the orcs weren’t inherently monsters who would always end up going back to being monsters. Then WoD made it so even the Demon Blood made a small difference. Blizzard lays it on thick and then tries to backtrack later and it ends up coming off contradictory.
All that said, that very mindset which Jaina’s dad had is what Sylvanas used to convinced Saurfang the War of Thorns was necessary. One of her core arguments is the Alliance would never truly forgive the orcs for what had been done in the past and inevitably one day they would come for the horde and the horde would probably lose if it was caught on the defensive.
The whole thing is kind of Ironic.
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Varian wasn’t doing a “Victory” he was buying time for his people to get away. It’s an honorable death.
Sylvannas was ordered to preserve the Horde by her WarChief and she did exactly that. Staying on top of that cliff would only have been a pointless suicide plus it would have left the Horde fatally vulnerable to the Alliance even if Varian’s forces had won the day… which would have been doubtful at best.
Disagree right there, you can have a Good guy exist without forcing them to have a villain to oppose them. A good guy wouldn’t just fight evil, he’s actively try to help others. It doesn’t need to be an evil person and a good person, as you can’t use human constructs like morality as a biological ordeal.
In writing we have 3 shades of morality. White Morality, where you are an honest to god good person, Black Morality, where you are a scumbag who is undeniably evil, and grey morality, where you aren’t a super good person or bad one, you have good points and bad ones and often are pursuing an agenda that is selfish but not necessarily harmful to everyone.
WoW is marketed as being Grey and Grey, but is being Written as Black and White.
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