In WC3, he wasn’t a hero to the human campaign either. Jaina was the hero for standing against him.
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Considering how the Drust were pretty wicked and evil going by their archaeology stuff, the Kul Tiran settlers did a service to the rest of the world.
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I don’t think the KT’s were automatically killing the Drust. There were even Drust who disagreed about the war and ended up working with the humans.
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That’s what’s known as a turncoat. Every race has traitors that will act for their own advantage… or out of cowardice.
Possibly for not being okay with ritual sacrifice and enslaving the souls of the dead, but who knows.
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I feel like you’re missing my point though. They don’t have to change a single thing about Daelin to make him look good to the Alliance. The writing of the Horde thus far, from Cata - BfA, has done nothing but justify his views of the Horde to Alliance players, and more specifically, Jaina.
In addition to that, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the people of Kul’Tiras never stopped hating the Horde. We have literally landed on an Island full of people who basically worshiped the ground he walked on because he wanted to kill all the Orcs. That’s what made him their hero.
But this is also an issue of the writing in and of itself. The Horde has been written as comically evil at this point, which appears to be to the dismay of a decent portion of Horde players.
And you’re also not wrong. He wasn’t supposed to be a hero to the Alliance. But with the way the story has gone, as an Alliance player, it has made it much easier to sympathize with his cause.
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That doesn’t make his views right. And if you paid attention to the denouement of the Proudmoore storyline, even Katherine admits her husband dug his own grave at Theramore… an unnecessary one.
I’m not saying his view was right, I’m saying the Alliance has now been placed into a position where his views seemed right.
And I’ve mentioned Katherine in other posts (possibly not in this thread) seeing Daelin for what he had become. It’s apart of what allows her to pull Jaina back.
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of course, but… have you seen brennand? we have orcs,trolls,goblins and forsakens literally killing for fun.
and kultiras weren’t even part of the alliance at that point.
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To be fair, she was a Tushui Pandaren, who align with the Alliance, but like all Pandaren are not usually hostile towards anyone. Especially when they’re healing the innocent… I mean not that my forsaken cared. She was good eating! ![:yum:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/yum.png?v=6" ":yum:")
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No, I get that perfectly. I just don’t like it and don’t want to see it reinforced with a more sympathetic portrayal of him in nuWC3.
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Did you use sriracha sauce or Thai peanut sauce with the Pandaren?
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So you don’t like it when the bad things we do have a negative light cast on it (Hence this thread), but would prefer the bad things the Alliance do remain in narrative condemnation?
Asking to understand, not argue. For me personally I feel the narrative should have condemned all acts of aggression uniformly and that its been a failing on WoW’s part in particular to sort of play with the factions with kid’s gloves for so long. We’ve been mutating and mutilating our way through the Eastern Kingdoms while the Alliance spied on and attacked us for over a decade and Blizzard through their narrative has bent over backwards to assure us that either; war is normative here, or its okay when we do the things we do because the other guy is probably a jerk. I get that BfA is jarring because of this. It seems to be the first expansion to look at genocidal acts or other, lesser forms of aggression and just plainly state “Okay this is actually a bad thing”. And lo and behold, its got us kicking and screaming like petulant children.
EDIT: Oh. This is what I get for clicking the “Top” tab and not reading dates. Ugh.
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Not exactly. I think WoW and WC3 are different animals and should take different approaches. WC3 is a single-player game, where the player can see all sides of the situation. WoW is a multi-player game, where players are encouraged to see things firmly through the lens of their chosen factions. When you play WC3, you’re not “an Alliance player” or “a Horde player.” You’re just playing that particular campaign, where Jaina is the heroine. If they whitewash Daelin Proudmoore in nuWC3, I feel like that would be trying to shove a WoW viewpoint into the RTS.
Daelin should stay as a racist jerk (I’d like to use a stronger word, but let’s stick with that), and the player of WC3 should be cheering for Jaina when she opposes him. No matter whether that player normally plays Alliance or Horde in WoW.
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Snipping for focus, but keeping the rest of your post in mind. I agree. I like narrative condemnation of condemnable actions. I also, as you say peppered through your post, agree that unbiased viewpoints are ideal. I would prefer WoW’s perspectivizing remain its own issue and not spread.
Though I think we might differ looking at WoW in general? I need to ask, now that the Horde in BfA has become every bit the racist jerk Daelin was (Starting a war because “those alliance dogs will never stop!”), do we want narrative condemnation to be consistent between actions regardless of the medium, or do we want WoW to go on being a special case with its partisan blinders? Patronizing us and telling us we deserve to be genocidal murderers because people have been mean to us?
If you never touch WoW lore, sure. But if you do play WoW, nowadays with Jaina going “Father, you were right” and the Horde doing everything it can to prove Daelin was right though?
All of Jaina’s efforts in WC3 have not only been for naught - they come back to bite her in the behind when the so-called All-New non-Evil Horde she supported ends up in the hands of genocidal maniacs half the time, and the Horde populace is all too willing to follow them until they themselves are threatened by their leader.
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The subject of Daelin is kind of derailing the thread, so I’ve made a new thread for it:
I’ll cover this bit separately, since it is related to the main topic of the thread:
Honestly? I don’t know how to answer these questions yet, because I really, truly don’t know what they’re trying to do with the Horde in this expansion. Do they really mean to make Daelin seem right? The game sure feels that way, and yet whenever you hear the devs talk, they don’t sound like they meant to give that impression. Maybe we can come back to this topic after the faction war ends and see if we can figure out just what they thought they were doing.
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I firmly believe that the current writing team lacks writers who understand Horde characters and perspectives. This isn’t meant to accuse them specifically of bias, but the writing reeks of people who truly don’t understand why people like playing the Horde, and don’t understand how their portrayals of the Alliance make it across the faction divide.
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When even his widow finally decides that her husband WAS, in the end wrong or misguided, at the end of the Kul-TiraN storyline, that would seem to be a no.