I value and respect your opinion, but I feel like it represents the thoughts of those who wish to continue to war with the Alliance, put them in their place, secure power for the Horde.
I am sure there are others in the Horde who would value peace, an end to the fighting, to death. Like two nations, living side by side, without warring.
Baine seems like he is trying to do just that: negotiate a peace, or at the very least, a ceasefire. I can respect it. To do so, he is willing to put the immediate needs of his people aside for what he perceives as the greater good for all.
He could’ve just challenged Sylvanas to a Mak’gora like his father did to Garrosh but I get the feeling Sylvanas wouldn’t fight fair.As she’s said,“What is honor to a corpse?”
I think this is probably one of the main problems with the Horde. Kindness and empathy are a weakness. It’s why their concept of honor is currently very warped. And if it continues, I doubt we’ll see much change for their narrative.
You miss my point. It’s not just weakness or empathy. I’m not speaking from the perspective of an observer. I’m speaking from the perspective of a writer. What person would have a character act the way Baine does?
The guy can’t even read a room. He just acts out of pure stupidity. That one line where he wants to open peace talks while Nathanos was saying the Horde was about to lose the war with Rastakhan’s death and the decimation of the Zandalari fleet.
He doesn’t act like a leader. He acts like a buffoon.
Horde are just angsty teenagers… I thought they were underdogs trying to survive in a harsh world. You’re gonna have to explain this more.
Once you become a superpower, you are no longer a misfit nor misunderstood.
Misfit underdogs trying to survive in a world that doesn’t understand them. Nothing they do is ever their fault, really. They’re pushed to it. When they act out of anger or selfishness it’s always justified. No one can Truly Understand Them, because they’re so free-spirited and freedom-loving. Taking responsibility is oppressive.
How many YA novels/teenager movies have this theme? The Horde, until arguably Mists, has been written the same way.
Yeah the underdog thing was fun while it lasted, but the Horde isn’t an underdog anymore. They’re highly despised. And while it may be due the orders of only a few, they’re not despised without reason.
He’s doing what he needs to do to save lives, while the opposition is doing what they need to to take them. I don’t see that as buffoonery. The Horde started a war that Baine is concerned they can’t win. Wouldn’t it be better to try to appeal to the Alliance’s better nature and surrender, saving thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of lives?
My interpretation of Baine’s reaction was that he was thinking
“Okay, we started a global war with an unwarranted act of genocide. We’re committing atrocities left and right, we don’t have anything to show for it. We allied with a civilization thousands and thousands of years old, and within 6 months, it’s in ruins. Maybe we can fix this before it gets worse.”
I’m imagining an end-of-BFA event where Sylvanas, as Warchief, leads her undead minions of the Horde to do something horrific. The Alliance cannot stop her alone, but Baine, Lorthemar and Rhokan (fine, and Galliwix) step up and oppose her as well. The Forsaken, with their free will, can decide, via a seperate scenario, whether they follow her, or stay with the Horde, their faction being under the new leadership of… who knows.
Sylvanas retreats with her third, new faction of undead. Alliance and Horde agree to peace talks. Thats when the next, Big Bad Threat comes along.
Now imagine the opposite of the Broken Shore: Horde and Alliance, working together but barely trusting each other… yet no one betrays anyone else, and together, they achieve victory.
Old wounds aren’t healed, full trust is not yet there, and the occasional trigger happy soldier will still fire first; but there is enough there to work on a lasting peace, like what was experienced for a few years after WC3.
That always troubles me, people complaining about Baine going to the Alliance to end the war he’s not interested in partaking in to begin with.
What… -else-, would he do? He has a friend in the Alliance - a friend that’s the king of the Alliance.
If I were in his position? He’s the first person I’d go to when I decided I was ready to betray the Banshee Queen.
I mean, I guess if it were someone else they might try to handle the issues internally, but I feel like that wouldn’t be a very in-character thing for him to do.
And how exactly is the Horde supposed to get out of it’s “angsty teen” phase when Blizzard continues to make the Horde the villains?We’ve already done this song and dance during MoP with Garrosh but Blizzard is acting like that expansion didn’t happen!Look at how quickly they killed off Vol’jin and replaced him with the worst choice for a warchief(next to Gallywix)EVER!
Meanwhile the Alliance is once again treated as the heralds of peace,love and justice while being victimized liked they were during MoP with the bombing of Theramore.
The Horde gets stuck with the genocidal maniac who has declared war on not just the Alliance but the living in general(which makes me feel like she will eventually turn on the Horde as well) while the Alliance has their perfect little golden lamb Manduin Wrynn.
Someone who is aware that conflict spurs character, which spurs plot development. If Baine was just another cackling genocidal maniac or another simpering toady under the thrall of the Horde’s current duopoly, he would be boring and forgettable. As someone who has a motivation, acts on it, and provides another source of conflict, he’s actually a much better character than Lor’themar “I’m mad but I’m also scared” Theron or Nathanos “greetings hero now steal me another corpse” Cringecaller.
There’s multiple valid criticisms of Baine, but it’s clear you’re not speaking from the perspective of a writer.
The writers made her Warchief for a reason. I have to believe that. Coupled with the whispers Alleria heard, which seems to indicate the Void is terrified or threatened by Sylvanas and what she is.
No, this was meant to lead somewhere, and it will most likely not be her as warchief for decades. Which is why it’s okay to hypothesize about who the next warchief should logically be.