You yourself have answered exactly how much it matters what any of us here think:
I get that you think this smarmy “requote back someone elses words” move is cool. But you’ve tried it twice now in this thread and failed to address their point both times.
I suggest getting a new smarmy gimmick.
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What do you mean unpunished?
It looks like Calia may become one of our racial leaders, and as if THAT wasn’t punishment enough…
Thrall looks like he may be coming back as well.
That’s enough punishment for one expac.
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Well, punishment by the writers is not the same as punishment from those that were genocided.
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You are not talking punishment, you are talking about revenge.
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You want your pound of Horde flesh?
Oust that idiot Anduin. You’ll never get it with that fragile boy in-charge.
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we gladly would if we could. Hope is on an option to side with Tyrande/Genn over Anduin soon.
Haha and that worked out so well with the loyalists and traitor choices the Horde got. Your as trapped as the Horde are in this mud mire of a circus story.
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True though since we were having a discussion on the sense of ‘punishment’ my point was in regards to the discussion rather than any impact it might have. Which is in truth, bugger all.
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My responses to you ultimately stemmed from your first response to me in this thread, which itself was a response to Droité:
As far as I can tell, Droité was talking about the architects of the war being punished and that somehow carrying over to apply as a punishment to the Horde in the story as a whole. So if the discussion you are having is about the meta-narrative of how Horde players feel, you’re not having the same discussion as the one I was jumping into about the story itself.
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On the other hand, Genn may not trust the Horde … but VERY characteristic of him he seems to not give any real craps about the Faction now that they no longer remain an obstacle to him getting at Sylvanas. There is little to suggest that he is opposed to the treaty being created between the Horde and Alliance now that the targets of HIS vengeance are not a factor in that treaty.
Tyrande and her followers alone are the ones rejecting the principle of the treaty outright (at least until Sylvanas and Nathanos are dealt with). Which … I suppose does make sense considering the content of this conflict (and considering Genn really is at the cusp of reclaiming Gilneas through such a deal). Unfortunately though, it does isolate them in a weird spot.
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Hm yeah it’s weird with Genn. I mean he still kind of owes the night elves something for saving his people and letting them live in Darnassus, so I hope we will see him help Tyrande with whatever she’s planning.
I’m generally not a fan of this whole “shifting the whole blame on Sylvanas” thing.
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Neither am I, but at the same time Blizzard attempting to DO just that was why I was under the impression that Sylvie would go the way that she did in 8.2.5.
There is a strange logic in making the Horde nothing but pawns in her schemes; as it (at least on SOME level) makes them the victims of her too. Nowhere NEAR the victims that the NEs are, but on some level it was intended to dilute the blame on the Red Faction (especially when combined with the fact that ALL FOUR major Architects of this conflict are no longer part of the Horde by the end).
Sylvanas & Nathanos are in the wind. Saurfang is dead. Gallywix (the war profiteer) lost a HUGE amount, and apparently cut his losses with the Horde. The loyalists that STILL remain loyal to the one who used and abandoned them are in chains, and being paraded around Org as an example. The ONLY two racial leads still in charge, are those deliberately kept distant from Teldrassil.
Its all in service to that dilution of blame. Not very satisfying I know, but there is a very basic function to it.
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I just hope they don’t pull an Illidan 2.0 on Sylvanas and just let the night elves kill her and Nathanos. I expect nothing at this point so this would be enough, even if the horde gets away unpunished.
But given that Sylvanas and Nathanos are self-inserts of the devs and they would never let them die (as seen in 8.1), I doubt there will ever be a satisfying conclusion to the whole thing.
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Honestly I am not very satisfied with “we will side with the rebellion and the Alliance only now that we know Sylvanas never cared about us”. Hopefully there is some actual reflection about why they gave in to anger and hatred, as Saurfang described, enough that they were fine with everything she does. There needs to be moral rejection of the Sylvanas way, not one of basically “fine as long as she does it for us”.
At least the leaders want to change the Horde’s ways for the better. Lor’themar even talks about regretting waiting too long to do anything about it.
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I actually don’t know. Sylvanas doesn’t seem the type to act altruistically, even if her actions benefit others (while benefiting herself). My GUESS is that she will not get a “redemption” (as she does not seek it), but she is being used to call attention to an issue that will need to be dealt with (one that will be revealed to both factions in their pursuit of her).
There is every possibility that she will succeed in what she’s doing. I expect Nate to die in that pursuit, but her succeeding in her objectives IS possible (I expect she is attempting to thwart death, by becoming death … or some such nonsense). On the other hand, Blizz is also building up competitors to the Throne she may be coveting; and man would it be SO satisfying if say … someone like Bwon beats her to finish line at the last minute (and steals her Crown).
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Well with the Bolvar stuff that’s been seen, he might be getting involved to help deal with her as well.
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Eyir, Bolvar, Bwonsamdi … I think all three of them are genuine in their dislike of her and her actions (for different reasons). If we really are headed into a DEATH themed expansion, I expect all three of them to be in opposition to her.
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It is rather annoying, though, that as far as the portrayal of the remaining Horde leaders goes, they’re trying their best to keep their heads down and bring up Teldrassil as little as possible (spare Lor’themar, but even he just mentions it in passing, not actually bringing up any active discussion of it) so the Alliance will sign the peace treaty and not bring it up themselves.
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Oh, no, I understand that frustration. Honestly, Baine and Lor’themar should have been allowed to turn on her nearly immediately after Teldrassil; but it would not have been convenient for this plot if they did (so they were forced to sit on their hands until it WAS convenient for them to turn). It sucks … it made them both more culpable in that atrocity due to their lack of action, but at the same time their hands were every bit as tied as the Alliance’s hands are now.
It sucks all round…
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