Lol insults. You just proved how wrong you are. Reported btw.
lol sure, keep trying to get under my skin instead of answering real stuff.
Well I donât agree with that at all.
Itâs the same justification as last year when alliance was premading. Itâs still cheating despite what you can say, at least in my opinion. Queue syncing AV to form a premade is cheating. And so does agree Blizzard.
Thank God it doesnât matter what you agree with.
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Itâs a good thing your opinion is worth less than the dirt on my shoe. Blizzard also doesnât consider premading cheating, they just didnât like so many games not starting and so many starting with little to no people in them.
Premading still exists today and Blizzard doesnât do a thing about it.
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I donât agree with anything in the OPs post at all.
I play AV alot and I think the main reason the Alliance lose more is because the Horde are better players.
Itâs really that simple. When classic AV first started people said it was biased for the Alliance, myself included. But I and those people were wrong.
It is just the current players which is the reason for the current status of who wins and lose more. For example, at least from when I started WoW back in 2007, I never heard of the cubby strategy before. I never heard of the term âghostingâ flags or bunkers before (mainly a AB term).
Those examples show that the players make the game. Not the map.
I played some more horde AV tonight. This is the best thread to post my thoughts in.
Iâm really trying to be impartial because I completely understand why alliance enjoy these wins, myself included on my alliance. After getting beaten and farmed for so long revenge is sweet.
I did two more games on my horde against the premades and one game against a pug. The alliance won all 3 games. The pug vs pug game was more of a base race. In all games including against the pug, horde were concerned with getting LTs and commanders. Horde seem to be adapting to the premade thing by not defending and trying to get what they can out of a game. Horde will have to keep adapting to start winning properly again against even pugs. Itâs also at the end of Classic so thatâs another thing but IMO the AV meta is changed for good.
What I found in the games is the general horde thought is to just play AB and WSG instead. Both of which also have short queues for horde and better HPH vs losing AV for the FEW rankers (there seem to be more ally PVPers around now for some reason).
So second thing the horde AV queue has gone down to âinstantâ at times which for AV is 3-5 minutes. I had a horde queue pop in 2 minutes. Also, more alliance every day are getting into the premade Discord and coming back to AV. So we have a situation where more alliance are starting to queue than horde. There is no reason this will not continue and there is going to be a tipping point somewhere where so few horde queue that the alliance queue syncing will be more difficult.
What Iâm hoping is a horde AV discord starts up/gets bigger and we can get some real competitions going. Iâve heard there is one but I have yet to find it. I have seen horde linking their own personal Discord for people to join and I respect that they are trying.
Otherwise Iâm not exactly sure what will take place next. As Iâve said before I find the whole thing interesting. I wasnât even playing AV for the longest time so it doesnât really matter to me but weâll see what happens in the coming weeks.
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Itâs going to be a fun meta.
The games are looking to be fun when fighting a horde premade.
Fought a 15 man horde premade. It atleast 3 groups of 5.
Theyâre ere decked tho 2 warriors with MOM, about 5 Heals and they had 2 Naxx geared healers.
We ended up losing but we had desk at 40% so it was a close 90 minute game.
And so is your opinion to me.
Delusional. So Blizzard doesnât care if youâre doing premades of 30+ players in AV but weirdly you canât premade AV in the game you have to queue sync. I guess the only person you will convince is yourself. Yeah, you can definitely keep your (bad) opinion to yourself.
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Thank God it doesnât matter what youâre writing. Seriously, might as well stop writing if you write useless stuff like that.
OP, constructive post. Well thought through.
But Iâm sorry, the change in win rate was too SUDDEN to be anything but the discord. If discord participation has tapered off, or is not 100% of the gamesâŚso be itâŚI can believe that. But âlearningâ the winning strat ALL OF SUDDEN (caps for emphasis) is beyond belief, given the 6+ months of +95% loss rate for alliance.
Takeaways:
~ reduction in queu time for alliance resulted in possiblity of discord coordination.
â discord coordination has resulted in a MONUMENTAL advantage in games stemmings from:
a) increased motivation
b) participation from more geared players
c) simultataneous demoralization of horde players
- cave start position (while acknowledged by all sane players both factions gives Horde a slight positional advantageâŚit is obvious it is not a gamebreaker (read that againâŚbecause your win rate as alliance right now shows that it is not) With proper strategy and motivation âŚit is pretty much irrelevant.
It is frustrating that the games are so lopsided in favor of the horde when the discord coordination wasnât presentâŚbut it is also ridiculous to call it anything but cheating for the current state of the map.
solution: blizzard somehow breaks the discord alliance premade. but you MUSTâŚput the horde cave a little further backâŚso the factions meet in the field of strife at the same time.
while i feel the cave movement is not as significant as alliance players would seem to think, it will put to rest this old argument and we can move on.
Either wayâŚwe just swapped one silly version of AV for another (the alliance premade version)
those are my thoughts. Yes Iâm horde but I would think this regardless of faction. the evidence is obvious.
I think for competition it is good to have equal footing, even if it is perceived (the cave location). just break the premades somehow and move the cave. I think the residual âhopeâ for alliance would result in some really EPIC (I want to write EPIC thirty times lol) battles in field of strife) becuase the alliance have plenty of geared and capable players. They donât need discord. They never have.
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With TBC just around the corner it would be fun to end classic with some all out battles in AV.
Many alliance are queuing right now so horde could set up a discord channel. Share it on each server through guilds and general chat. Spam it every game you enter for those who might want to join.
AV Red vs AV Blue.
Bring it on!
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Funny how all of a sudden that âinsurmountable map advantageâ that was apparently the sole reason alliance lost 90% of games is no longer an issue
Its almost like the map wasnât completely horde favored this entire time, it was just simply in hordes favor because the overall âmetaâ for the past year was the alliance using the wrong strategies that essentially was to play directly into hordes strengths on the map and beat their head against the wall expecting to get different results while complaining about how âriggedâ the map is.
When both teams are just mindlessly zugging with no strategy the map favors horde, when both sides are actually trying to win with strategy, it favors alliance
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It wasnt or isnt I should say. It was just people trying to reconcile a 90% plus loss rate without taking any responsibility for it.
The map is fine.
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Actually there was one real map imbalance. I admitted it when reviewing the complaints of map complainers : rezzing from SFGY to Aid Station was a really problematic map imbalance imo.
And guess what ? It was corrected by Blizzard. But map complainers are still complaining. But I like how to Blizzard gave me reason.
For the rest, there is imbalances for both sides. Nothing huge though.
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Only took a premade to beat it.
Clearly not there tho!
You disagree with the map being a disadvantage for Alliance? Really? Maybe you should look at the map.
How terrible Horde must be in AV to lose playing that map.
Disgraceful.
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Has the Horde tried organising a recall D wave to wipe the alliance when they pull Warmasters?
Despite being coordinated the alliance âpremadesâ never have more of a strategy than follow the leader.
If you could tele/aoe spam them and wipe the WM pull where the WM have good aoe you might be able to kill every pug.
Prob would take 20-30 defenders working together.
Well said. From the alliance side this matches up with my experience too. I could also see the horde getting organized in a discord and perhaps flipping the win rate back to themselves with the lower queue times over the next few weeks. For now though, the alliance seem to have the upper hand even when it is not a âpremade.â
I just played a full pug game and when I got in the horde had soft capped SFGY and SHGY while the alliance had soft capped IBGY. Alliance were civil in chat, making call outs and no one had given up. I also did not see anyone afking or just trying to farm rep. The group was roughly split in half trying to get SHGY back while defending IBGY. Once SHGY was back, calls were made to get quickly to IBGY. Everyone responded and slammed the door shut on the horde by hard capping IBGY. It was certainly a closer game with more bonus honor for the horde, but in the end a fairly decisive pug v pug victory for the alliance. The mindset of the alliance player in AV has completely shifted.
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