I mean, there’s literally zero evidence of a 1% win ratio for Alliance.
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I was never in a premade, but I have to agree I never saw anything like those complaints (at least here or on reddit) until relatively close to the end of premades. By the time they put in the first attempt at stopping premades, it looked like unless you were in what was at the time called a tier 2 premade (I’m assuming because everyone in them was wearing full or close to full tier 2) win rates were poor. Early on, games were simply races, whether premade or not. That’s just based on what I read, mainly on reddit. But i never once saw anyone early on say that alliance needed to be in a premade to win.
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Yeah. It didn’t help that a lot of the horde pugs were also in T2 gear making it harder for a lower tier premade to overcome the gear advantages. These also suffered from not having any of the best sweaty rankers as well which is currently an issue, but not the issue with the map. I honestly think these early premade struggles were a precursor to how things work if you don’t have your best players there to carry team fights. Without them, it becomes a lot harder to overcome some of the map disadvantages. And they exist people. Honestly, I wish there would be an honor boost to AV along with removing the start location respawn option. I think that would bring the sweatiest alliance back to the BG and make the game even enough that these complaints die down and we can get back to having contested matches.
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Edit: There are a couple other small change ideas that have been tossed around that I also like. I.E. slight delay to horde cave opening to make first team fight at FOS and randomizing start points though that last one is probably a fairly large change.
Early on both sides were zerging and alliance not in premades had a guess what 50ish% win rate. I wasn’t premading AV and when I ended up in a game with some premades I never saw the report abuse horde lie about being rampant. I maybe saw once or twice the famous pally drek pull that horde claim works so well actually work, it failed far more often than it worked and usually ended up costing the game when it failed.
ya it’s probably worse you’re right
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It definitely wasn’t any “50%ish” when Horde saw a premade like you are claiming. Horde literally rolled over and died for a long time against premades. Literally just did Lts. + Balinda and watched Alliance win. Interestingly enough, the same statements being said by a lot of alliance players on here were happening with horde back then. “Hey, we should try to chase the premade and stop them.” “Nah, we won’t get any honor that way. Lt’s + Balinda.” There were several games we got those players to actually try and they were PISSED when we didn’t succeed and they got no honor from Lts. + Balinda. Every time we lost like that, it became harder and harder to convince them. Eventually, it did become pretty clear whether the premade was a sweaty one based on ranks and horde would actually try against the bad ones, but it was excruciating getting them to play at the time.
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So yeah, I can’t really speak to your pugging experience. I assume it kinda sucked given that most of the sweaty players weren’t available to help win team fights. I can only speak to my pugging experience and tell you without a shadow of a doubt that on horde side, we were winning maybe 1 in 6 games for a long stretch there.
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Edit: as for the “zerging on both sides” statement. That was true for roughly 2 weeks until horde queues got to 20 mins and alliance started doing premades. Horde stopped trying pretty quickly at around this point.
Yes I’m not talking about your experience against premades, something that blizzard actually did address despite #nochanges…
And 1 in 6 wins is a lot better than what alliance are getting now, not to mention that even in those losses horde were still getting decent honor rep. On top of much shorter queues than they have now.
I have been pretty #prochanges in my posts about AV. I honestly don’t think changing the respawn mechanics gets AV to 50/50 because I do think the alliance have a player problem. That said, if it was even 70/30 with a shot at 60/40 on AV weekend, that would be a pretty massive improvement.
Its more likely around 90/10 on AV weekend, and you have people actually trying to win. Definitely a map problem and not a player problem.
Need to reread what I posted. If the respawn changes were implemented, with the current players in the BG, I would anticipate a 70/30 non holiday weekend split. I would expect closer to 60/40 on holiday weekends.
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The reason I think this is because I still don’t think the alliance rankers would play the BG. Without those players, I don’t think we ever get to 50/50. With those players queuing up, I think that single change probably does get it to 50/50.
I do think that yes day to day alliance players in AV are not the best, but even on AV weekend when you really do get alliance teams trying to win rate doesn’t get anywhere close to decent.
So there is definitely a large map component issue as well. Alliance teams don’t have to just be better to win, they have to be several times better to have a chance of winning.
I agree with this. I think the easiest thing they could implement with the largest impact would be to remove the starting point respawns while the faction holds a GY. I doubt they do it which is truly unfortunate. #sigh.
I’m a ranker and i know if we had a chance at winning in under 30 minutes, I’d 100% queue for AV. The only reason i queue on AV weekend is because i can still put together a few rogues and kill LT’s while also getting the bonus honor at the end. Roughly puts me at about 8-10k HpH.
With 99% loss rate we currently have, i can spend an hour in AV and only get ~2k honor. I guarantee you, if alliance started south, we’d have 99% win rate and the horde would be screaming for changes and suddenly there’d be a map advantage.
Here is hoping they implement it then because getting more rankers back would be a huge boost to the BG all around.
I can’t speak for other horde players. Some won’t agree with the map advantage argument no matter what and those are the ones you are best just ignoring. The Cave location is too close to IBGY. Period. If respawns at that location are removed, suddenly you have a whole lot fewer horde able to defend IBGY and the map itself is about as fair as it gets without randomized starting locations and some other larger changes.
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Honestly, you are preaching to the choir here because I am for the changes. I just want good games and right now they are pretty awful most games. #sigh.
Having more motivated, geared, and talented players in the BG on holiday weekends, does not mean that the unmotivated, poorly geared and untalented ones went anywhere. The latter are still a drain on the overall team. While on the flip side, the horde who wait in the long queues are just as motivated to squeeze as much value out of the BGs as possible, regardless of it being a normal week or a holiday weekend.
TLDR: The cement shoes do not get any less heavy when someone hands you a fine tailored suit to wear with them. There are not a small number of alliance players actively dragging the rest down (and a lot that are genuinely trying their best).
Makes you wonder WHY there are so many players that aren’t putting effort in? I bet it has something to do with the environment they’re in…perhaps a MASSIVE map disadvantage?
Which really doesn’t change the fact that’s it’s largely not just a player problem.
The only difference between 1.12 AV during vanilla, and 1.12 AV in classic is literally the players.
Were you a master tactician as a 15 year old? Most of the players 15 years ago were zugzug kill stuff. We weren’t efficient at all, didn’t have addons to tell us HpH or anything of the sort. I’m also fairly certain that queue times weren’t as bad back then.