Hillsbrad Fields, Southshore, and Dun B…/Google Garok, Dun Garok A dwarf settlement all attacked and annihilated in a war of aggression (Mostly under the orders of Varimathras if I remember correctly).
And you can’t really say “I used to live here 142 years ago so you need to die” is a valid reason for a mass murder…or five.
And the Horde is a Horde with a single leader who is supposed to be held responsible for everyone under him and they are to obey him. So if he has members doing something he doesn’t want to be held accountable for he’d need to declare them rogue and cut ties but he doesn’t.
And it’s not really a dispute that can be legal from any diplomatic sense. The royal family of Lordaeron dead, the kingdom dissolved, and what aristocrats remained on the living side joined Stormwind. The closest we get to a dispute is the Barov’s and that is really just a fight between a pair of upper class twits who point us in the direction of actual threats (Their relatives who signed on with the Scourge as necromancers and Death Knights).
It’s an invasion for resources and power. Nothing wrong with that. They don’t have a choice given that the Alliance would love nothing more than to eradicate them right back were the writers not on board.
Yeah well it’s not the first time that member of the horde does whatever the hell they want… Im not sure what to believe at time, poor writting or they just don’t want to held anyone accountable for doing something the Warchief didn’t necessarily want.
Let’s be honest, the forsaken should have been exiled from the horde longggg ago. But gameplay wise… It wouldn’t make much sense to have a third faction that consist of only 1 race.
I don’t think so. I mean, you don’t call something a Horde and keep the old ruler’s title if your intent is a loose political confederation.
And anyway, from what I recall in Vanilla, the Alliance filled the loose confederation role. The High King nonsense didn’t come about until Mist of Pandaria (and you have no idea how much it pisses me off that Genn, a monarch in his own right, acts totally subservient to Anduin.)
I think it’s more a case of Thrall adopted the Old Horde political structure - he did idolize Grom Hellscream and Orgrim Doomhammer, after all - but was just a benevolent absolute ruler who let the other leaders run on a loose leash.
It doesn’t seem like a retcon to me, so much as a benevolent absolute ruler being replaced by malevolent absolute rulers.
Thrall lead his people away from conflict and saves multiple races from extinction but somehow he’s the bad guy apparently. Galaxy brain takes right here
there was no good or bad in vanilla. vanilla takes up after the 3rd war. the blood elves [even if we dont know of their existence yet] are just recovering from the slaughter by arthas [not yet lich king]. bc takes up after their recovery, kael’thas already leaving for outlands. even though kael’thas petitioned to join thralls horde, it gets put off because of so much other junk that piled up. sylvanas kind of pushes that message to the top of the pile and brings it to thralls attention. either way.
this poster is correct. we are playing vanilla, under thralls shamanic horde. you need to keep in mind is that the old horde, does not exist in game [wow]. world of warcraft has always been thralls horde from the getgo. at no time did this horde ever exist in this mmo. the wc series is there to play for back story but is not a part of our universe.
you might be able to force that in bfa, where blizzard has taken the horde down questionable paths, in our universe and for all to see. but i wish to point out one thing that is very important, as quoted by thrall when he formed the free/shamanic horde [our faction in game];
afterwards, when the shamanic horde was formed and the slaves set free from the alliance interment camps, thrall loudly proclaimed that he is willingly to live peaceful and even make trade deals with the alliance but if they do not leave us alone, if they keep coming for us/trying to kill us, we will raise our weapons and destroy them.
thrall has wanted peace with the alliance since wc. now you know who truly wants war and bloodshed.
take that good vs evil crap back to bfa where it belongs.
The purge of stratholme, would be a perfect example of where the right thing to do, which Arthas ended up doing there, was not necessarily the ‘moral’ thing to do…
In this way, it represents both him trying to do the best thing he could’ve done for his kingdom overall, while still crossing that moral threshold, and eventually leading to his detrimental path toward becoming the Lich king.
You’re a few years too late for this. The Horde aren’t even the good guys in vanilla. They’re more a neutral-good entity, with elements of evil thanks to the Forsaken. Any Horde who denies it doesn’t know their own lore.
There is no good and evil, only varying shades of grey.
If you really think the horde are evil just because they’re the horde, or because of what the group of the same name did in warcraft 1 & 2, you’re just omitting facts to suit your own bias. The orcs were originally a tribal/nomadic group with no intentions of invading other realms. Gul’dan was corrupted by kiljaeden and the fel, and through him the orcs were changed, draenor was turned into a dead world, the orcs enslaved/killed off the draenei, and then eventually invaded azeroth.
Even if you go by the Warcraft movie, you can see that not all orcs took the fel, and not all of them were corrupted by it. Some were unwillingly, like blackhand and thrall.
Pre- and post- fel orcs arent evil, they’re a little aggressive and bloodthirsty maybe, but not ‘evil’. They have a code of honor and a culture they follow - that was part of why the tauren and trolls joined them (among others); because they were honorable at heart.
You’re more likely to get backstabbed and mugged in the back alleys of stormwind or ironforge than you ever are in orgrimmar or thunderbluff.
That’s the BfA buzzword. Blizzard can’t write shades of grey to save their life.
Except… a lot of the orcs from the original Horde are still there in the new Horde, and one of them (one of the biggest contributors to the original Horde) is praised as a hero.
Not actually correct. The orcs were nomadic and tribal, but they were far from peaceful. They fought with each other and had a long and bloodthirsty history with the ogres. The only reason they didn’t actually do anything more than what they were already doing is they lacked the power. When they were given it, they attacked indiscriminately and committed unspeakable acts. This also happened in WoD when they weren’t corrupted by the Burning Legion, but merely given the tools and the means to hurt others.
Gul’dan was also never corrupted. Ner’zhul was the previous leader of the newly formed Horde, who had been tricked by Kil’jaedan. Upon discovering this, he was quickly betrayed by Gul’dan who only wanted power and didn’t care how. It was never necessary to corrupt him.
Correct, the Frostwolves never consumed the blood but were exiled for it. Blackhand was among the more evil of the orcs, so I’m not sure what you mean. Thrall wasn’t born when this happened and inherited the blood curse and the green skin through birth - showing it wasn’t just those who drank the blood who suffered from it.
You used to have a point, but WoD kind of shows that wasn’t really true. The Tauren and Trolls joined the Horde because of the actions of Thrall, who saved both of their people from extinction.
To be honest, at the time of the World of Warcraft beginning, the Horde excluding the Undead had returned to a more shamanistic model under Thrall and were working together to claim a homeland. While yes this came up against the Night Elves in Ashenvale, the vast majority of their outposts were in unclaimed land in Kalimdor.
On the other hand, the Alliance was being run by an evil Black Dragon, with a puppet child king, intentionally fomenting discord and strife, both amongst the member nations, and against the Horde.
But no-one is “the bad guys”. That would be the Raid bosses.
IF goodly people take on the name of something evil people used, then don’t surprised if other people think of you as evil, and a force to protect itself from.
ESPECIALLY if those people were the ones who the evil Horde slaughtered. Taking that same name doesn’t sound very “Wise” to me.
![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")