Horde and AV - A History

[Suraknar-deviate-delight]

I understand that, an AV match going on for 2 days is not what Devs or players may want today.

But 600 reinforcements is too short too. How about pre-1.12 AV with 2000-3000 Reinforcements?

[Flyinsquirl-fairbanks]

There would have to be some other adjustments as well.
If the purpose is that you stay in an AV for hours and hours, they would have to eliminate the repeat HKs honor reduction.

[Samyra-ashkandi]

Since the thread is taking a turn again we could visit the topic of the style of BG it is. Both teams attacking and defending at the same time has its own dynamic feel that should spawn a multitude of strategies. However we seem to only get 1 per side generally.

What I would like to see is some incentive for the quests to be utilized still since it feels like a staple of the BG in general but is generally ignored in today’s game. And by that I mean horde tends to get to freely summon Lokholar and get the flight masters into the sky if the choke lasts any real modicum of time while Alliance can’t even get their Flightmasters back to base to attempt any of those turn ins. How could we see that improved going forward?

Suraknar brings up a good point that if we did include the reinforcement system 600 tickets might be too short of a game to keep the classic feel. 2k might be a bit much but AB used 1500 score as a basis with moderate game length. I’m not sure how that would affect the general motions and length of AV.

Thoughts and opinions on how to achieve both? Pretty sure we’re past the point of “Exploits need to be fixed” and are now moving into what might be an improvement.

[Flyinsquirl-fairbanks]

Increasing the rep given from the quests and increase the gold given from the quests once you are exalted would incentivize them.

I think increasing the value of capping towers and somehow give more incentive to defending towers would also make the objectives more important and encourage more dynamic gameplay.

[Frostsmoke-windseeker]

The 1.12 version of AV would be better if it was played in two segments.
Offense and Defense with a timer.

This is kind of what AB is, just more dynamic without one side being named Offense or Defense, no?

[Flyinsquirl-fairbanks]

AB is more of a resource battle.
I’m thinking more along the lines of a castle defense. The current AV map already supports it.
I can see the parallels though.

[Primordial-bigglesworth]

this is the current issue. The resistance to change. We are going to lose for as long as people expect a 7 min AV.

Yep, its a 30 min fight now. Just how it is.

[Zohkar-mankrik]

Just got out of a match where the Alliance where sitting inside the tunnel of SHGY waiting for the Horde to show up, assuming to ambush us as we attacked Belinda. Sadly we expected it, after 15-20 minutes of fighting to finally push the Alliance out of that GY, only to repeat it at SPGY and Alliance actually finally pushed us back when they got the druids in motion. Sadly we killed the druids and push back eventually taking that GY and damn going into your base was pure hell.

Between the towers and your people fighting hard, it to our Ice Lord to break the siege, which was funny he ran into Vann room where like 20+ of you where and he just kept getting bigger and bigger as he killed more alliance. Matched ended but damn Alliance guys having like 220 HKs must of been some decent honor.

[Ocisly-pagle]

Horde stop using back door strat if you are.

aww, you asked so nicely, i bet they’ll listen now.

[Ocisly-pagle]

We are going to lose for as long as people expect a 7 min AV.

literally nobody is expecting or wanting 7 min AVs by the way.

[Sokajoo-rattlegore]

The current issue is you have two factions trying to play two different games. Ally wants the 7min zerg PVE fest. Horde wants the PVP and objectives done for most fun/honor.

If that’s not the most loaded statement I’ve seen in a while I don’t know what is. ‘Ally want pve fest, horde want to play the way the game should be played.’

Here is what we can control as humans:

Not being toxic to each other.
Ally choosing to PVP in AV instead of trying their best to zerg around.

So you’re essentially saying alliance have a different goal than horde, and the only fix is for alliance to play the way horde want to play.

Gtfo of here with your bs soap box.

[Shaedra-bloodsail-buccaneers]

I guess the issue at hand is - why was this not a problem before, and why is it now? If you look at the historical data, it shows no favoritism towards horde - even the devs themselves say it. It was an alliance dominated battleground. The cave was not an issue until 2.3.

In 2.3 it did, and it was changed. Today, it is still heavily alliance dominated. Most horde have this and IOC blacklisted.

From my memory at the time, a lot of it was due to mentality. I explicitly said (playing Horde at the time) why don’t we force them on the defensive, we’ll win every time. I was told “we don’t do that, forcing a turtle makes the game take too long, we’d rather lose most of the time than make every game a turtle even if means winning”

[Vartok-herod]

So, you dispute that horde aren’t milking the games for all objectives/max honor since the queues are so long?

And you’re disputing that after 15 min of trying to run around horde alliance don’t spam bg chat saying everyone should stop rezzing and let them win?

Those are my experiences in the current AV meta. There’s no soap box, just some facts on the history and what seems to be going on with relevant ideas for a fix.

Sorry you’re so angry about it. You know, it isn’t fun for horde either.