Honor system isn't defensible

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

We’re far too far down the road for them to start making systemic changes to the plan. Release is within months.

Except av is not coming out with release.
They certainly have time.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

Except they’ve clearly explained they feel 1.12 is the best version of vanilla they can offer. And that includes AV, so #nochanges

Not the best, the “most complete” they had available.
Sad as that is.

[Raerith-malganis]

If there was no decay/not reliant on other people (per the OP), then yes, there will eventually be a metric ton of HW/GMs running around.

This is how the current BFA honor system works. There’s no decay. Everyone eventually gets all the titles and rewards. It’s completely meaningless and no one cares about it.

Whereas if you see a rank 14 in vanilla, you were in awe.

[Cife-bloodhoof]

Facts:

• Bears
• Beets
• Battlestar Galactica

It’s a change, so it’s not something that belongs in Classic.

[Motors-korgath (Motors)]

and needs to be changed.

Don’t count on it. This is classic and that is what people want…warts and all.

[Ligerzxr-hyjal (Ligerzxr)]

Rank 14 Gear at Vanilla scaling before any modifications stats crunchiness etc, they had the most stamina and base damage outside of Naxx. It was super common to see tanks with a PvP gear once they capped defense rate for the THICC stamina and strength on the gear.

Most DPS could go in up to BWL with minimal resit gear at rank 10 armor (Ony Cloak a must obv) and healers slotted PvP gear for HP boosts and manage easier than with full resist gear, especially with Chromatic Flask.

The system itself is also based on participation, Higher pop and more active servers had a harder time, why generally if you wanted rank 14 you did it with groups in cycles as there could only be one Grand Marshall and High Warlord each week.

Solo queue you could manage rank 10 or 11 but that was about it, system wasn’t a welfare one, if you wanted rank 14 you had to work with others and put in the time. PvP isn’t for everyone, just like Raiding, so only those who are able and willing to should get the gear, not someone that ground out X currency over a month or 2.

I’m called elitist these days because putting in more time & effort over others should reward as such. shrug

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Except they’ve clearly explained they feel 1.12 is the best version of vanilla they can offer. And that includes AV, so #nochanges

Not the best, the “most complete” they had available.
Sad as that is.

Actually let’s go look at their AV post.

@Kaivax

For many parts of the game like this, we’re picking an original WoW patch that gives us the most clarity for WoW: Classic, and 1.12 is that patch.

And most importantly,

@Kaivax

It gives us several early improvements to the BG that we’re glad to have in place. Early on in AV, there were too many NPCs and they were too hard to kill. By 1.12, many had been removed and NPC health was brought down to a reasonable level.

Key word improvements, and the one specifically noted is removing and weakening NPC’s.

So i think best is an appropriate word to use, instead of trying to pretend that they couldn’t give us an earlier version.

[Slowbop-silver-hand (Slowbop)]

Let’s face it, Honor system isn’t defendable and justifiable in any shape or form

I like it. I want my casual title “Senior Sergeant”. I want opponents to know that, while I play casually, I will take them with me.

There, I defended the system. Maybe not super-articulately, but there it is.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

@Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Except they’ve clearly explained they feel 1.12 is the best version of vanilla they can offer. And that includes AV, so #nochanges

Not the best, the “most complete” they had available.
Sad as that is.

Actually let’s go look at their AV post.

@Kaivax

For many parts of the game like this, we’re picking an original WoW patch that gives us the most clarity for WoW: Classic, and 1.12 is that patch.

And most importantly,

@Kaivax

It gives us several early improvements to the BG that we’re glad to have in place. Early on in AV, there were too many NPCs and they were too hard to kill. By 1.12, many had been removed and NPC health was brought down to a reasonable level.

Key word improvements, and the one specifically noted is removing and weakening NPC’s.

So i think best is an appropriate word to use, instead of trying to pretend that they couldn’t give us an earlier version.

Yeah well they also think bfa class design is an improvement

[Cubic-emerald-dream]

Yeah well they also think bfa class design is an improvement

That’s the kicker, when people praise blizzard’s ability to decide what is good (the current staff, not those who work on modern WoW), while people are essentially running screaming from blizzard’s current design philosophies and decisions and what they feel is “better”.

[Raerith-malganis]

Yeah well they also think bfa class design is an improvement

hahahahaha

[Vaedryn-uldum]

Naxx is alot easier to get.

Oh dear, clearly we have someone here who has no clue as to how much work, time and effort it takes to get to Naxx in Classic.

It isn’t like we’re gonna be walking into Naxx when it comes out there pal. How about the months of grinding in 5-mans into 10-mans, going into months of AQ20/ZG/MC/Ony, and the months of grinding BWL/AQ40 prior to Naxx.

Going to take just as long to get fully geared with Naxx gear, than it is to get rank 14. Both are equally taxing on people.

PvP gear will be far far FAR superior to everything else prior to Naxx for the most part. Not a lot of people will even get into Naxxramas

[Kytus-azjolnerub]

Blizz is trying to recreate an “Authentic Classic Experience”

That experience includes all the original grinds in the way the were back when WoW first game out. That includes the PVP honor grind.

Deal with it, and if you can’t, oh well

[Raerith-malganis]

Blizz is trying to recreate an “Authentic Classic Experience”

That experience includes all the original grinds in the way the were back when WoW first game out. That includes the PVP honor grind.

Deal with it, and if you can’t, oh well

If you can’t then don’t worry. Blizz periodically increases the ilvl of all BFA world quest rewards, making huge portions of the game obsolete each time, so you can be the special snowflake that you deserve to be! And for minimal effort!

[Kytus-azjolnerub]

Yea, I didn’t really want to say retail ----> that way etc. But really, it’s been reiterated many times. They want as close to original as possible.

If he wants all things to be as close to equal for people regardless of play time, the current retail game fits that.

[Ogodei-eredar]

Not the best, the “most complete” they had available.
Sad as that is.

Depends on your perspective. Best is likely the most accurate term since trying to go back to an older state and then selectively update it is harder than to go to the latest state and correct issues there may have been.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

It isn’t like we’re gonna be walking into Naxx when it comes out there pal. How about the months of grinding in 5-mans into 10-mans, going into months of AQ20/ZG/MC/Ony, and the months of grinding BWL/AQ40 prior to Naxx.

Nah, we just have to grind Argent Dawn rep, get a free attunement, then walk over to the entrance near the Stratholme Front Gate and teleport in. Just don’t touch Mr Bigglesworth…

Its easy to get “to Naxx” or “in Naxx”

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

I fee like “Most consistent” is the ‘most accurate’ description. They accept that its a good build that covered a lot of fixes, but their biggest reason is the fact that they have the entire real database from the patch, so no guessing.

[Vaedryn-uldum]

No! A curse upon you, interlopers! The armies of the Lich King will hunt you down. You will not escape your fate…

I loved that.

[Xcentrick-area-52]

dont forget that turns on hard mode.