Honor system isn't defensible

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

People with a job need to be able to reach R14

Why?

Rank progress not dependant on other people.

Why?

but you can still do it, providing a long-term goal for PvP’rs.

Why?

TL;DR: PvP gear needs to be more or less equal to PvE since both pay the same sub fee.

Why?

[Krackillz-sargeras]

What about “Warts and all” makes you think Blizzard has any intention of “fixing broken systems”.

not broken, I know someone who did the grind, it worked as intended.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

not broken, I know someone who did the grind, it worked as intended.

The premise of the post is that its broken. I’m not even claiming its broken or not, just the he’s arguing that Blizzard should ‘fix broken systems’.

[Lorthos-draktharon]

PvP gear is inferior to PvE gear and does not satisfactorily cover all slots(ie. trinkets)

Stopped reading here because you don’t know what you’re talking about

[Derka-wyrmrest-accord (Derka)]

I’m enjoying reading this thread. This is a bit of fun on an otherwise boring work day. Thanks guys. Classic is gonna be great.

[Dealloc-dethecus (Dealloc)]

Facts

PvP gear is inferior to PvE gear

You’ve proven your ignorance in your second point. Good job

For most hybrid classes the epic PvP set is best in slot for the associated spec; at least for PvP and in some cases PvE as well.

Shadow Priest BiS: PvP set

Arms Warrior PvP BiS: PvP set

Feral Druid PvP BiS: PvP set

Enhancement Shaman PvP BiS: PvP set

Even some pure DPS classes might consider mixing in some of the epic PvP set with t3 to boost their stamina to the max.

Honor system isn’t defendable and justifiable in any shape or form, and needs to be changed.

Nope. Not going to happen. And we don’t need to defend it. It’s how it was in vanilla and that’s the only thing that matters.

Your complaints are irrelevant. Your “undeniable” points are irrelevant.

You will be assimilated into the vanilla collective. Resistance is futile.

[Farthir-durotan]

The honor system is one of the best things about vanilla.

Im not sure I agree. If we are to look at PvP gearing system objectively as a whole, and compare it to PvE - it’s a whole lot inferior and unequal in terms of accessibility as well as the actual item slots covered.

Nolifing something to get a reward is great. We need more of that not less.

That’s a completely unjstifiable viewpoint. There’s no reason why a person who has a job and social commitments, like family, should not be able to reach R14, provided they work hard enough.

No, PvE gear is NOT unlimited, get out of here with that.

PvE gear is unlimited as long as you have enough people to do Naxx. R14 weapons are limited to just one person per week per server.

However, considering the difficulty you’re automatically (in Vanilla) limiting it to 1% of the player base, and that depends on you getting A.) the item you want to drop and B.) getting the item.

You could run Naxx for 52 weeks and have Gressil or something drop 0 times, or 1 time.

This isn’t a 10 man raid where you have a 25-40% chance to get it.

That’s seems more of an argument for PvE gearing system than anything.

The fact is that it’s statistically likely to get a good weapon from PvE as long as you do it for long enough. However, is not statistically possible for more than 1 person to get Rank 14 per week, no matter how hard they try. I don’t think you understand just how limited PvP gearing is in compared to PvE.

In PvE, you can, and more than likely will have 11% of people doing BWL getting Askhandi doing BWL on the server on a weekly basis. However, you won’t have more than 1 person reaching R14 in PvP per week ever, no matter how many people there are on the server, greatly limiting PvP gearing.

What’s more is that in terms of hours, PvP takes far more time and commitment than Naxx, all for a weapon that is still worse than Naxx epics. You can get a comparative PvE weapon much easily and much earlier than PvP, starting as early as BWL which everyone can steamroll.

I think you are making a bigger deal from PvP weapons than we have to. PvP weapons aren’t even that good, they are just needed to give a long-term motivation and goal for PvP’rs, as they are intended as an option to gear for PvP’rs ( = people who don’t PvE).

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

PvE gear have much easier access to gear than PvP does

Then raid and get PVE gear.

PvP gear is inferior to PvE gear

Only in the case of PVE, in PVP the PVP gear is better.

and does not satisfactorily cover all slots(ie. trinkets)

PVP trinket is only obtainable in PVP and is actually needed by some classes in PVE. I am not complaining about the requirement to get the PVP trinket.

R14 requires insane grind to the point of not having a social life.

Stop playing solo.

It’s not just a long grind that takes x amount of hours like in PvE - it requires many weeks of consecutive, non-stop PvP to achieve ranks only people who have no job and social life can do

Play with a team, this is the design of the game… This is no different than raiding Molten Core.

Only 1 person can reach HWL a week, so the rank grind and thus PvP weapons are restricted from 99% of PvP’rs

Who cares, it’s a pretigious item and should remain so… Does everyone have Ashkandi or Dark Edge of Insanity?

Honor system was intended as a primary way of gearing for PvP’rs.

Blue PVP gear is equal to and better than T2 raid gear for PVP use… Think about that for a moment.

If you can’t reach R14 by playing legitimately, then it defeats the entire purpose of the honor system.

You can get Rank 14 by playing in a raid group and doing BG’s like you’re intended too.

• Rank progress not dependant on other people.
• No rank decay

Should I be able to solo C’thun?

No I should not be able to solo C’thun nor should I be able to solo my way to Rank 14.

Sorry.

[Cilivia-illidan (Cilivia)]

Shadow Priest BiS: PvP set

Arms Warrior PvP BiS: PvP set

Feral Druid PvP BiS: PvP set

Enhancement Shaman PvP BiS: PvP set

To be fair, these specs won’t be no where near serious raid guilds, so they only have PvP option and some scraps from alt runs

[Krackillz-sargeras]

@Farthir-durotan

That’s a completely unjstifiable viewpoint. There’s no reason why a person who has a job and social commitments, like family, should be restricted from reaching R14, provided they work hard enough.

[Gnostik-sisters-of-elune]

My impression was that top shelf pvp AND pve gear is more or less just as hard to get, you just have to make social connections in different ways to get them. I’m kind of looking forward to possibly no-lifeing some PvP while my future wife is at work (I’m on disability, so I’ll have that time). It’s a shame in retail the only thing that really rewards you based solely on hours put in without a time gate is leveling.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

I think we’ve successfully defended Vanilla PVP.

/thread

[Dealloc-dethecus (Dealloc)]

these specs won’t be no where near serious raid guilds

Sure, but they’re also associated to builds that are suited for PvP. So to get PvP gear you PvP.

In vanilla builds that work for PvP and PvE well are few and far between. Even within the same tree you’ll have a PvP and PvE spec.

[Swani-arathor (Swani)]

Wth? The high prestige items has always commanded a high time-investment and grouping up. This sounds like welfare epics. No thank you!

[Leiloni-area-52]

I seem to remember BC had a pretty decent gearing system, anyone remember the details of that? My memory may be off since it was a long time ago and I was still a newb in those days, but I was able to get a full set just by casually doing BGs. Probably not BiS lol, but it was something? Anyone remember how it worked?

[Krackillz-sargeras]

Its the rambling of a bitter person who wants something but doesn’t want to earn it so they complain about how it should be easier for them to get.

[Xarlath-area-52]

I think we’ve successfully defended Vanilla PVP.

/thread

[Luuni-area-52]

MMORPGs as a genre have always been about time investment.

There are games out there where if you play enough you’re literally in god mode due to your gear.

I’ll use your example of someone with a job and a family. They play 5 hours a day. They pvp. Why should they get better rewards than someone who plays double or triple them?

That makes zero sense in an MMORPG.

[Amangina-hyjal]

PVP gear was harder to get when pvp was ranked, pve geared people wrecked bgs. Once honor became a currency, rather than a metric for determining ladder position, pvp became welfare epics. The right answer would have been somewhere in between, but Classic is not supposed to be a time machine to let you go back and change the past. It’s supposed to be a museum piece to let you go back and see the past.

[Kaìm-tichondrius]

I think it’s more of a rant from someone who thinks it should be accessible to everyone, not that they don’t want to put in work, they just don’t have the ability to nolife to R14 and that shouldn’t hinder them.

I’m not saying anything should change, just what I see here. I, for one, liked the ranking system, except for the cheating that was done to get to the top.