I mainly play Sub rogue PvE and i’ve noticed that Honor among thieves isn’t generating any combo points. currently it’s rank 2/3 which is a 66% chance rather than 100%, but the effect cannot occur more than once every second. i find it hard to believe nobody in my dungeon groups doesn’t crit enough to proc a 66% chance combo point for the entire duration it takes my energy bar to go from 0-100 which would be about 10 seconds of combat
is anyone else experiencing this? or am i just this unlucky
Me too, its not worked a single time for me as well, i wonder why this is… i also play sub only and do not see it working!
I concur. Broken talent. Needs fixing ASAP for sub to be viable in groups.
Anyone gonna look into this?
Bumping. I get completely obliterated on DPS for longer fights. 1 CP every 1-2 seconds is huge to helping keep SnD and Rupture rolling. I will have to respec for heroics simply because a talent isnt working
Fully agree. Respccing cuz broken talent.
We got er on the big bug report.
I’ve been noticing this while leveling to 70 after Wrath classic pre-patch came out. I spent ten levels and a few raids not getting any combo points from Honor Among Thieves. I looked online to see if anyone else had posted about it, but it looked like no one had. I figured either no one played subtlety rogue or I was crazy. So I tested it out with a friend of mine. We whacked away on a target dummy in a party together for a good fifteen minutes, my buddy using abilities at about 24% crit rating while I simply auto-attacked. At no point did I get a single combo point, meaning Honor Among Thieves wasn’t triggering at all. We sent a bug report, but haven’t seen anything change since.
A few weeks later, every once in a while, I’ve noticed that I’ll get free combo points for a brief period of time. Unfortunately, I can’t get my friends to help me test the conditions that trigger it. They’re content to believe I’m a charlatan, misremembering the glory days when Honor Among Thieves made subtlety rogue PvE viable. As near as I can tell, it has to do with logging in. After logging in, it seems like Honor Among Thieves works, and then at some point after, I don’t know what triggers it, but it feels like it lasts maybe five minutes or maybe three kills, I can’t tell, but Honor Among Thieves stops working and won’t work again until I log in again. Due to the random nature of crits and my unwillingness to spend gold on a respec, it’s hard to say when exactly the combo points really stop without more party members helping trigger it more frequently. As I see it, though, it’s entirely possible Blizzard is looking into this problem, seeing that Honor Among Thieves works for the first five minutes, and chalking it up to bug report trolling. I’d like them to know that there’s something else going on than that it’s just not working. It is working. Briefly. But I’d rather avoid a log out and back in between each pull meta.
tested this out and it worked for me today, seems like Honor among thieves acts like a hidden buff with like a 5 minute duration rather than perma
Hello Blizzard, this is a bump 
After showing my guild that this is a real problem that I didn’t just make up to explain my bad DPS, they’ve begrudgingly allowed me to log out and in before boss pulls, and by ‘allowed’ I mean I spend thirty seconds logging out and in while everyone is getting set up. They acknowledge why I’m doing it, but pull the boss before I get back anyway.
So far, I haven’t been able to determine a reason why Honor Among Thieves stops working, but I have determined that it’s not due to time nor to kills. At the most extreme durations that I’ve lost Honor Among Thieves, it’s lasted for one and a half boss pulls on the high end, and one free combo point into a boss fight on the short end. On average, it seems to last most of the way through each boss fight, and it has ended before I’ve even killed anything. There was also a time where I logged in and our group sat around for several minutes before engaging and I still had Honor Among Thieves for the entirety of the fight. The only thing that’s certain is that Honor Among Thieves will stop working at some point, and it seems like the more activity is going on, the faster it goes away. I unfortunately don’t have a controlled environment to test this further, but I’ll continue to glean as much information as I can from the chaos that I have.
Thanks to anyone who has been able to help test this with me. It’s been daunting getting anyone who doesn’t main subtlety to take this seriously.
It has the potential to be such a fun spec, we just need a little help from our friendly devs. The work you do hopefully won’t go unnoticed by them!
bump bump the post bump
I’m no longer logging out and in before boss pulls as I don’t want to continue to be disruptive to my raid group. I appreciate my guild for allowing me to go for as long as I had and jokingly referring to the practice as ‘subtlety pre-pot’.
That doesn’t mean I’m done looking for solutions. Part of being a good DPS is learning the rotation, optimizing the gear, and being a live, free game tester for the developers to help fix the bugs that inhibit my damage output.
A few new interesting things I’ve learned:
I recently acquired a dual spec, both of which are subtlety, both of which have Honor Among Thieves (though one of them has 1 point and the other has 2 points in it). If you’ve ever switched between two talent sets that have largely the same talents, you’ll find you unlearn and relearn, for example, all five ranks of Hemorrhage, even though both sets have it. Harkening back to Vaellian’s suggestion that Honor Among Thieves is a hidden buff with a limited duration, I thought that meant unlearning and relearning the talent would reset the duration. It turns out that’s not the case. If you’ve lost Honor Among Thieves, no amount of resetting your talents will fix it. However, if you have not lost Honor Among Thieves, switching talent sets will not remove it. This suggests Honor Among Thieves is not a hidden buff with a limited duration and that something else is at play.
After spending the past month or so pestering the only friend willing to help me test the Honor Among Thieves bug, I’ve finally gotten said friend to tell me to stop asking. With the knowledge that I may be the last person on my server willing to go the distance, I have renewed vigor and have begun soloing target dummies. I spent about fifteen minutes attacking the Heroic Training Dummy in Iron Forge and was able to get a decent number of Honor Among Thieves procs. Afterwards, I waited ten minutes and started attacking the dummy again until I saw an Honor Among Thieves proc, rinse and repeat. In an hour, it seemed I hadn’t lost Honor Among Thieves, yet. It occurred to me that, up until then, I hadn’t really played this massively multiplayer game solo in a long time, certainly not since classic. For whatever reason, as long as I’m solo and in a relatively dormant location, it seems Honor Among Thieves will last for at least an hour (possibly forever, but I don’t have that kind of time). Knowing that I’m probably not the only subtlety rogue who role plays a lone wolf (yes, role play; I could totally have friends if I wanted them), I figured there must be something that can be done to get Honor Among Thieves to stop working without having to get others involved. I stepped outside to Dun Morogh, murdered a few bears, boars, and other lone wolves, none of them procced Honor Among Thieves, but that could very easily be because they’re no longer my target when they die. Afterwards, I came back to the Iron Forge Heroic Training Dummy and have not been able to get an Honor Among Thieves proc since. However, after logging out and back in, Honor Among Thieves works again.
Unfortunately, it looks highly likely that anyone testing Honor Among Thieves in a sterile environment will see no problems with it. It’s only until you go out and actually play the game as a subtlety rogue that you lose Honor Among Thieves. Apparently the only honorable thing I can do as a thief is stay home.
I’ll continue doing more tests when I have more time.
I was in a naxx run, i had to hearth to dalaran for a moment and while i was waiting for a summons i logged. As soon as i logged in, got the summon and pulled
0 HoT procs.
Might be something with phasing or location?
Apparently the only honorable thing I can do as a thief is stay home.
This killed me.
Taking Vaellian’s latest suggestion to task, I’ve tested the possibility that losing Honor Among Thieves has to do with phasing or location. Although I’ve consistently lost Honor Among Thieves during raid boss fights before without any phasing nor major changes to location occurring, I’ll be happy to find any results that produce a consistent outcome.
The first thing to note is that I’ve taken a portal from Dalaran about five times since starting these tests and still had Honor Among Thieves in the major cities on the other side. So if this has to do with changing locations, it wouldn’t be just any location change that triggers the loss of Honor Among Thieves. Thinking that it may have to do with distance traveled, I first started by circle-strafing the Heroic Training Dummy, which didn’t end up dropping Honor Among Thieves. I then tried running a circuit around Iron Forge several times, testing Honor Among Thieves whenever I passed the dummies, and still didn’t drop Honor Among Thieves. I also tried leaving Iron Forge and dipping my toes into Dun Morogh multiple times and didn’t lose Honor Among Thieves… until I came back and there were other players attacking the dummies. Logging out and back in fixed Honor Among Thieves.
Since their presence may have disturbed my results, I decided I would need to go to some dummies that were more conducive to a controlled environment. Naturally, when looking for ideal laboratory conditions, you of course want to turn away from the joint home of the Gnomes and Dwarves and instead seek the industrious and scientifically-minded Night Elves of Darnassus.
Before testing changes to location again, I made sure Honor Among Thieves was still working after my hearthstone/portal trip from Iron Forge to Dalaran to Darnassus. According to the Heroic Training Dummy there, it was. I then dipped my toes into Teldrassil. Honor Among Thieves was still working when I got back. I then made an entire tour of Teldrassil and Honor Among Thieves was still working when I got back. I started making a point of… the local wildlife, which Professor Ancient of War was happy to provide via a steady stream of nearby squirrels and deer. I should note that no living creatures were harmed during these experiments and that I took great care to ensure they were dead before proceeding. Multiple times I came back to the dummies to see if Honor Among Thieves was working, and most of the time it still was, but about one in five times I’d come back and Honor Among Thieves was no longer working. I’ve tried to find any consistency in what causes the loss, including whether there was a critical strike involved, how many combo points were on the subjects by the end of each experiment, and whether abilities needed to be involved.
As far as I can tell with my limited data:
I’m going to continue looking for any consistency I can find, but it’s possible that whatever is dropping Honor Among Thieves is something that isn’t itself consistent.
I tested whether or not instancing affected Honor Among Thieves. First, I took a portal from Dalaran to Stormwind and attacked the Heroic Target Dummy there until I got a free combo point. I then took the underground train to Iron Forge and did the same there. I repeated this five times and at no point did I lose Honor Among Thieves.
Thinking it may be a little cheeky to consider the underground train an instance, I hearthed back to Dalaran and helped the locals with some escaped criminals in the Violet Hold. I still had Honor Among Thieves, which triggered about four times before it stopped working.
I know I’ve lost Honor Among Thieves without killing anything, but at the moment kills seem to be the biggest lead I have. I’m guessing there’s something else at play than just killing, though. Maybe if Honor Among Thieves triggers while I have no target (because it’s dead) or combo points on a different target (because I changed targets while someone in my party was still generating critical hits). As far as I know there’s no way to use abilities that can crit on a target unless that ability generates or spends combo points, so the easiest and possibly only way to test this would be with a party member, which means I’ll have to find someone new to annoy into helping.
Possible work-around:
A while ago, I made a rogue alt. Since I don’t have any immediate use for it, I didn’t see the harm in giving it all three points of Honor Among Thieves to get some consistency in my test results. I expected that I would get a more definitive reason for losing Honor Among Thieves by rerunning all the tests that dropped it in the past, but what I got instead was not losing Honor Among Thieves. My alt character is only level 70 and isn’t very well geared, so that may be a contributing factor. I also don’t run this character nearly as much as I run my main, so it’s also possible I just haven’t played it long enough to lose Honor Among Thieves. My main character has already run raids for the week, but I’ll test out the 3-point Honor Among Thieves work-around next week if someone else isn’t able to confirm before then.
While we’re on the subject, is everyone here using only one or two points in Honor Among Thieves like I’ve been? Has someone lost Honor Among Thieves with all three points in the talent?
i have 2 points in Honor among thieves. may have to test 3 point.
it’s worth noting that UI interfaces pertaining to groups may have something.
In my case i didn’t just take a portal, i took a warlock summon which requires group interaction and a UI popup
You had a case where you lost HoT after getting a whisper and a group invite. so it very well may have something to do with it, but nothing conclusive.
Being that honor among thieves is Crits from anyone in your party.
but as you said. it very well could just be that HoT drops for multiple reasons so we can’t really determine exactly what it is. it could be multiple things