@Snozzola A couple sincere questions. 1)Exactly at what point would you consider BM hunter be unplayable? 2) Why do you think its acceptable for a spec, any spec, to be 15% behind the MEDIAN DPS in any raid encounter? 3) Why do you try to invalidate people who question your arguments with statements like “BM tier needs buffed but aside from that BM isn’t as bad as the grey parsing hunters are saying it is.” particularly when you have this record: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/malganis/snozh? 4. How would you improve BM at this point considering a rework of the tier set is very unlikely to happen?
1 Like
His parses aren’t bad on heroic but not what I expected from someone with such profound understanding of BM that only he can interpret and understand any data. I expected nothing less than mensa level logic and 95s from how he presents himself.
On his best Halondrus parse, he was 6th in damage done and was beaten by purple parses of every class. That’s something to hang your hat on there for a spec? And for someone who criticizes people constantly on performance, you have three straight gray parses on Rygelon. Whats up with that Snozzie? Does someone need to bench warm a boss?
If you don’t understand what a damage profile is then that’s on you not me.
Pointing out that a hunter claiming BM is unplayable doesn’t understand the main mechanic of the spec isn’t an insult.
You haven’t actually presented me with any evidence though.
Mythic logs at the 95th percentile we’re linked as evidence. The reason why that’s not much of an argument is because at that level of play people are going to play the maximized spec for those fights.
As most raid bosses this tier have lots of adds that need to be burst down quickly this is the ultimate weakness of BM as BM doesn’t have burst outside of spirits compared to specs like MM and Survicalmthat have in demand burst.
I never claimed BM wasn’t bad at a high level. I have repeatedly said that while
It has its issues (which I have also pointed out multiple times) I specifically have stated it’s still playable.
That’s fine and that’s your choice to be a one trick pony.
You have no promise of being competitive and to expect your spec to be the top is ignorant. BM is still playable outside of the top performing players. That’s why an experienced BM hunter will outperform an inexperienced SV hunter
Sounds like a personal issue.
I never claimed to have a profound understanding of BM. I specifically stated I understand what damage profiles are and why BM isn’t thriving in this raid tier. It’s not just bad tier set bonuses. It’s multiple small things on top of that because of BMs damage profile.
Ps up until 2 weeks ago I was still using the heroic sylvanus bow (rip mplus rng)
My guild only kills tier bosses now so we don’t do full reclears.
I’m at a 94. Of the people above me they are 90 80 86 86 90. It’s not that big of a spread.
I know you haven’t done rygelon on heoric so you probably haven’t had to immune the soak mechanics. Also my first two kills I was using a heroic sylvanus bow and the last kill I died early to lack of healing because our main tank couldn’t raid due to the tornadoes in Texas so our main healer was tanking.
Should probably atleast get passed heroic anduin before talking trash.
Are you asking for unplayable or not optimal because there is a difference.
If you’re raiding at a mythic level you should be playing multiple specs depending on the fight in general because if not you’re handicapping your raid.
BM is also playable up to 20+ keys but it might not be optimal because of how strong mm and survival are
Because of how the spec is designed. If BM which is a single target spec is doing equal to MM/survival on multi target then there is zero reason to play MM or survival if you have equal aoe/multi target damage and superb single target damage. This is part of what is a damage profile.
Because the specific hunter I was referencing has been pointing out that BM is flat out unplayable when said hunter can’t even maintain frenzy stacks.
They also keep linking mythic 95th percentile logs and don’t understand any of the factors and only that bm is on the bottom.
@Snozzie You realize you basically responded to my question by saying you shouldn’t play BM in mythic because it will be handicapping the raid. That is pretty much the definition of unplayable.
I’m not sure if it was in this thread but Snozh and I covered how there are two fights where BM is not a diservice (Halondrus by a decent amount and Skolex marginally).
This does not reflect the reality, however. The ST gap between MM/Surv and BM is nowhere near as substantial as the AoE/multi-target gap between BM and MM/Surv.
Skolex and Halondrus say hello.
How did I know you were going to take that out of context.
PS it’s not unplayable in mythic. It’s just not smart to play it because of its damage profile.
I even gave you an example to try to help you comprehend it.
That’s because of tier.
@Snozzable It’s not out of context when you actually say “It’s just not smart to play it because of its damage profile.” Literally read your own words. The idea behind “playable” is if you play it you may not top the meters but you will not be a handicap. How is this not registering with you Snozz? If we followed your logic, raids would consist of 14 Destro warlocks, 2 dk tanks and 4 Resto druids.
Yet thats not even what I said. I specifically stated at a mythic level its better to run other specs but you can still play BM.
No good raid would run that setup. You really have no idea what you are talking about.
@snozzable At this point, I am forced to say, troll be trollin’. Honestly you write something, then it get’s pointed out how absurd it is, so you start qualifying it. Like when you write “I specifically stated (you didn’t) at a mythic level its better to run other specs but you can still play BM.” Yes you can play Mythic as BM, you can walk in and jump off the side and still get a boss kill if the other 19 carry you. But if you don’t want to be carried; if you want to be viable and not a handicap, you have to see that BM is in deep trouble in mythic raid and high level keys. So please STOP trolling.
I am not trolling.
I am sorry that you are having a hard time understanding what I am saying but thats not my issue. The fact of the matter is this. AT A 95th percentile yes playing BM would be a handicap. Going into regular mythic as BM is still playable but not optimal.
BM is fine to kill Anduin and everyone else on heroic.
1 Like
Sigh, you realize the reason people use the 95th percentile is because it is considered to be the maximal POTENTIAL of the spec.
Yes I do, however you have to factor in that players at that level of play arent going to be playing a less optimal spec
1 Like
So the 5500+ BM parses are all scrub players and if the MM/SV player bases switch to BM the numbers would get appreciably better? Good to know. Could you please post that everywhere. I am sure people would get a chuckle
You do realize that BM is one of the most popular specs right? On top of the fact that more people will play on the lower mythic bosses on top of runnign it for Skolex and Halondrus.
Theres a reason there arent any BM parses at Anduin or Above.
You are so out of your depth its sad.
2 Likes
It’s not just about the tier bonuses. Yes ofc, they are horrible and need to be iterated on further. The thing is, as several have pointed out, contrary to your opinion, BM needs changes to its baseline toolkit and talents as well. For one, we’re tired of always being reliant on strong versions of borrowed power, in order for us to have any form of remotely decent AoE. Again, not saying that it has to overtake MM as an example, but at least something like KC benefiting from BC, under the same conditions as the regular base attacks/abilities.
You continue to argue that BM has a damage profile that isn’t good for 9/11 bosses in the current tier, yet somehow you still think the spec doesn’t need changes. I hate to break it to you but most encounters in recent times heavily favor specs with strong priority burst + AoE/Cleave, and that’s unlikely to change anytime soon.
Yep, exactly.
Ofc it’s playable, every spec is. We only want it to not be so far behind because, as you pointed out, in most encounters, BMs supposed niche isn’t what’s desired. And again, it’s not likely thay they’re suddenly going to do a 180 in terms of how most encounters are designed.
Considering BM isn’t really all that superior at ST, this does fall short. Especially since pure ST encounters are pretty much never the rule, but rather the exception.
And again, it shouldn’t be as far behind in AoE as it is.
1 Like
It’s a combination of the tier bonuses the fight designs and the lack of burst. As BM is a single target spec it’s not going to have amazing aoe. I don’t understand why this is such a foreign concept to people.
The type of changes you want only comes with a new expansion. They aren’t going to do a class rework on a .5 patch.
And my argument has been with hunters saying the spec isn’t playable while saying BM needs some issues addressed.
That’s because currently due to tier.
Single target specs are supposed to be behind in aoe.