we lost fandral too. he went wacky. we ended up killing him in firelands
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Yeah, but that was in the favor of the alliance. Horde didnât interact with him, most of the alliance players I knew back then, they were gleeful about getting to kill him.
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He was not a leader. In fact, he was the one that came up with the idea of defying the gods by planting new world trees.
And before you bring up Benedictus too, the head of the church is also not a leader of a natioon.
well this is the crazy thing. they put that level of stupid evil on the horde and then, invited players to embrace or not embrace it. and a bunch of them embraced it. scary levels of psycho there.
Frankly, the scary psycho Iâve been seeing most is alliance players on the forums getting into way too detailed revenge plots against the horde.
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They had their chance to do the noble horde thing with Voljin. If they wanted a ruthless Horde again they should stick to it and not make the player be constantly shamed over it/ lose leaders. And the flip flopping of that narrative creates fans of both versions of the Horde with one being unhappy while the current narrative is going.
Iâm mad about whatâs happened to Sylvanas and where they may be taking her.
Fandral Staghelm was formerly the [Archdruid] of [Darnassus] succeeding [Malfurion Stormrage]
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Fandral_Staghelm
he was pretty dang important.
Important, yes.
Does that mean he was a leader? Nah.
It would be the equivalent of having Eitrigg die for Horde.
âŠpoor old man, his days are counted, considering we really have nothing left to turn into loot pinatas.
They went way too big with the beginning of BFA. I canât really think of any good way to resolve that cluster going forward. With it being a deliberate action, and the way they wrote the horde reacting to it, thereâs not really the wiggle room for a âBut actually X did itâ like if the fire started during normal combat and neither side really knows what started it.
the Magatha Grimtotem of the Night Elves. Except you got to kill him after his betrayal, we had to do quests for her.
He was most definitely a leader. He was Malfurions second and replaced him when he was lost to the dream.
And defied the Aspects. Theyâre not gods.
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this is how i feel too. why did they ruin her? you just gotta know theres some political reason for it. it started back in mop when she started raising the dead into undeath, aâla the lich king. she was too beloved of a character to mess her up so badly
It would be more believable if UC happened first. It would explain the Alliance taking Brill so fast because I already find it hard to believe the Forsaken didnât just nuke the beaches or waters with plague when they knew they were coming.
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Like come on, of course we can boil this down to bad writing at any moment, but thatâs not the point.
But when you say the âneâs werenât the only ones that got shaftedâ comparing it to the Forsaken that got evacuated of their city during the retaliatory attack because Teldrassil, itâs kinda laughable. Those are consequences.
Like, let me ask you, if you used that argumentation for a real life genocide, do you think it holds? Like for real; we know it doesnât have to be successful in wiping out a people to be called so.
Also the lack of intentionality is moot. It doesnât stop being a genocide because it wasnât meant as one. A ton of Night Elves got burned alive, got murdered and their home destroyed, how is that not a genocide? Intentionality means nothing.
if your point is keep arguing about the technicality of what a genocide is and if the NEâs pass that litmus test, you are missing the whole reason we are talking about it. Itâs violence, itâs insurmountable evil done to a people, itâs being cornered and their home burned and their people dying. You just canât compare that level of implied trauma to anything the Horde went through.
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As unpopular as my opinion is outside of the loyalist players. I hold hope weâll see her return after Shadowlands.
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well, the good news is, only the horde will have enough players to do that.
Pretty much, there was already enough set up to explain that happening with Genn. around. Could have been a bit more nuanced of a story, and have given the alliance players who want to make the first move something too.
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Anyways, here is my daily support for playable Quelâdorei for the Alliance.
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Yeah, because he trapped him in the dream with all that Morrowgrain. He was always a villain in the Alliance story.
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/mouth drops
omygosh i helped that guy get morrowgrain on my nelf. i had no idea thats what he was using it for.
As I said, the point is not âtit for tat,â If you think this is about satisfactory reprisal you are missing the point.
The point is the lack of consequences of the War as a whole. How can the alliance move on with this anger, how can the Horde deal with the shame they maybe should feel? Your character might be the least complicit, or not at all, or not care, thatâs not the issue. The problem is the lack of consequences for everything that happened because all the resolution we got was âit was just Sylvanas!â and that was that.
Again, your character, anyoneâs character was probably just a cog. My issues come down to the leaders, who allowed this to happen, having like no introspection about the atrocity they commited and led their people to.
Like of everyone I have more sympathy for the Forsaken because they were on a cult and had to be snapped out of it. Saurfang regretted it the moment that happened. But Lorâthemar? How did we NOT get anything about the parallels with Quelâthalas? How did it take that long for Baine to see how effed up everything was?
My issue is that the Horde -and by that I mean its leaders- just seems to lack self awareness. Itâs not about âourâ characters. Itâs about our leaders and superiors going with the flow and the complete lack of self awareness, and later, remorse.
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