High Elf Allied Race Megathread (Continuation)

[Broflake-illidan]

Do you have a source on this? I feel like I’ve seen something to that effect but I really can’t place it, so I’m genuinely curious now.

You will have to give me a bit, busy day today, but I do recall it being stated the elves on outland felt its restoration.

Is it explicitly stated that High Elves learned it, though? All I can seem to find is that Rommath came back to the Blood Elves in Silvermoon and taught it. There’s nothing I can find that mentions that High Elves learned it or used it. Isn’t there a High Elf questgiver in Outland who mocks Blood Elves for mana tapping? It seems like something they’re against. Again, genuinely asking.

When Rommath originally returned to Silvermoon, many of those high elves had returned after its fall. It was why the schism started in the first place, because if there were high elves who only stayed at Quel’Danil and went nowhere else, then the schism would have been smaller.
Vereesa had to explain how silvermoon fell to Alleria iirc, and it was there she also learned about Sylvanas’ fall.

Eh? The fall of Silvermoon happened during the Third War.

And see my previous posts where I speculate on artifact use. It’s a grey area.

The whole issue of passive magic alleviating the symptoms doesn’t sound correct because again, we had Kael’thas who had 3 powerful artifacts floating over his head directly and he still made mention of how empty he and his people felt.

The Blood Elves, as a people, didn’t really even consider alternatives. They didn’t have a chance to. And that’s part of what the Warcraft Encyclopedia is saying, in that the magical addiction and withdrawal the Elves suffered was poorly understood and not studied half as much as it should have been, because it wasn’t as lethal as Kael feared, and could have been survived and overcome had he not jumped at Illidan’s offer for an easy, instant cure - a decision that led to Kael’thas’ own addiction driving him mad.

That’s still years dude, five years as a mana addict without a proper fix? If magical artifacts were enough to simply help alleviate the symptoms then why did no one make mention of it? Why didn’t Kael’thas mention it despite having those three artifacts with him at all times?
kael’thas was desperate, yes, but he was also pragmatic. He did not immediately accept the Naga’s help until after he was sure there were no strings attached to it.
WoW did Kael’thas wrong, because in WC3 he is much more different.

I’m sure it does. I remember someone saying that the sunwell affects all space and time. Which is why the blood elves were free to roam Dreanor in the past. Which is incredibly dumb, because has long has one sunwell exists in some reality, the elves should never go thirsty.

IIRC, it is suggested that the sunwell and the thalassian elves are linked to each other which is why it affects them so uniquely.

[Disdain-ravencrest]

They should just rewrite it to them not wanting to abandon their home. Those far away could be written to carry magical trinkets charged by the sunwell to draw off of. Or we could see gold crystals around blood elf encampments. And done. The lore would make sense.

[Callistus-wyrmrest-accord]

Unfortunately the rpg is not canon. Which is a shame, has it added so much cool lore

It was until 2011 though. Metzen used to really talk it up as a canon source.

“We’re taking the process of building a world seriously and it wasn’t just churned out. It had a strong sense of continuity. We’ve always tried to do that with are ancillary products like the D&D line and our novels. We are kind of painstakingly anal, about making sure all the details add up, that continuity is held to be sacred. So that no matter in what medium you are experiencing Warcraft it all feels like a contiguous experience.” - Chris Metzen, World of Warcraft, Behind the Scenes DVD.

BI: How do the Gnomes fit back into Warcraft lore? They were notably absent from Warcraft III. Where have they been?

Metzen: I think we deal with it a little bit in upcoming D&D supplements. During Warcraft II, the Gnomes were, in effect, building weapons and lending designs to the Alliance — but they were staying out of any direct fighting. In Warcraft III and Frozen Throne, and even in World of Warcraft, it becomes clear that the Gnomes have had internal problems of their own for several years. As of World of Warcraft, they still offer support to the Alliance in terms of building tanks, designing weapons, sending flying machines, and so on. But they had a problem at home that has recently been discovered - an ancient menace from the depths of the underground, called Troggs. The Troggs invaded the Gnome’s city of Gnomeregan and wiped it out. The Gnomes decided not to let the rest of the Alliance know about this because they figured that they could deal with it on their own. But Gnomeregan fell, probably thanks as much to the Gnomes’ own actions as to those of their enemies - they likely blew themselves up with whatever failsafe devices they used to defeat the threat. After the destruction of their homeland, the Gnomes fled to the safety offered by their nearby allies the Dwarves.

As you might imagine, many of us here at Blizzard have been playing D&D and other paper-and-pencil games since we were old enough to get shot down by girls. Armed only with funny dice, a fistful of Number 2 pencils, and our raw imaginations, we set out to be heroes, explorers, kings. Whether we were facing down the mighty dragons of Krynn, getting stranded somewhere in the endless fields of Faerûn, trying to keep our wits about us in Castle Ravenloft, or boldly challenging the unknown in worlds of our own making, our collective love for fantasy roleplaying has been with us from the very start. We’ve been developing the Warcraft series for the past ten years or so — frankly, it feels like it’s been in dog years — and it’s been a truly amazing experience to build a rich fantasy setting from the ground up. I guess the countless hours we spent thumbing through our old, ragged DMGs and Player’s Handbooks paid off after all! Though developing the world of Azeroth has been tremendously rewarding on the creative front, seeing it made into an official Dungeons & Dragons product — Dungeons & Dragons Warcraft the Roleplaying Game, in fact — has been downright monumental for all of us. The book you hold in your hands builds upon the D&D Warcraft RPG. It is full of the strange yet wondrous creatures that populate the world of Warcraft. In many ways, this Manual of Monsters is like a time capsule for ten years’ worth of ongoing world development. Looking back over much of this artwork, an old phrase comes to mind — “the more things change, the more they stay the same.” Damn straight they do. Fat, two-headed ogres; wiry trolls with bright mohawks; hooded, spell-casting death knights: these guys immediately remind me of developing Warcraft II eight years ago. That was an amazing time for us creatively. Although it took a few years, introducing the new generation of creatures with Warcraft III proved to be just as exciting. Lion-faced, furry wyverns; centaur-like dragonspawn; ill-tempered quilboar and serpentine naga: they all rolled on to the scene and quickly dominated Warcraft’s new visual landscape. Still, with every new batch of creatures we introduced, we held firm to the classic fantasy archetypes such as gnolls, kobolds, harpies, and hydras (among others) that we all grew up with. We’ve always felt that there is a precious balance between the classic motifs that define contemporary fantasy and the higher concept ideas that keep the settings we love fresh and distinct from one another. It’s the merging of the “new” and “old schools” in fantasy that makes it such an engaging medium for us as developers, designers, and — especially — players. We sincerely hope you enjoy Manual of Monsters and use its creatures to fuel as many adventures as you can imagine! All right! Enough about the monsters already! Go and get 'em! Grab your dice, get out there, and give 'em hell! Good hunting, y’all!

• Chris Metzen (co-author), Creative Director, Blizzard Entertainment, 7/07/03

Any piece of literature authorized and licensed by Blizzard Entertainment is in-fact, official. The book series written by Richard A. Knaak in particular is an excellent example of real ‘Azerothian’ history and lore available outside of our game software. We work closely with authors that help us expand our game universe, and the information should be considered official.

I’m very sorry but your assumptions are not correct. - Eyonix

And Finally, De-canonization:

"Q: Are the Warcraft and World of Warcraft RPG books considered canon?

A: No. The RPG books were created to provide an engaging table-top role-playing experience, which sometimes required diverging from the established video game canon. Blizzard helped generate a great deal of the content within the RPG books, so there will be times when ideas from the RPG will make their way into the game and official lore, but you are much better off considering the RPG books non-canonical unless otherwise stated."

So, Canon from 2003 to 2011.

[Disdain-ravencrest]

So it’s all canon unless contradicted in more current iterations.

[Alamara-goldrinn (Alamara)]

It’s more like an useful insight into what were the plans for the setting back then, but you can’t consider it canon unless something is confirmed in lore.

[Nindraine-moon-guard (Nindraine)]

You will have to give me a bit, busy day today, but I do recall it being stated the elves on outland felt its restoration.

No worries! I appreciate you looking.

When Rommath originally returned to Silvermoon, many of those high elves had returned after its fall. It was why the schism started in the first place, because if there were high elves who only stayed at Quel’Danil and went nowhere else, then the schism would have been smaller.
Vereesa had to explain how silvermoon fell to Alleria iirc, and it was there she also learned about Sylvanas’ fall.

It’s kind of tricky pegging down the schism, because like I said, it’s kind of multiple events over a duration. Even if the Elves who went on to become the exiled High Elves came back to hear Rommath out before running away/being exiled, that doesn’t necessarily equate to them using/learning how to mana tap.

It’s a grey area, but given we’re talking about what once was the Blood Elf racial ability here, I’d personally put my money on the side of the High Elves either not learning it or refusing to use it, particularly given High Elves tend to have a bit of disdain for Blood Elves for using it (some questgiver in Outland says as much iirc)

The whole issue of passive magic alleviating the symptoms doesn’t sound correct because again, we had Kael’thas who had 3 powerful artifacts floating over his head directly and he still made mention of how empty he and his people felt.

Well, keep in mind the Verdant Spheres lost most of their power when Kael’thas used it to help destroy the Sunwell (at least according to Blood of the Highborne), so yeah, they’re magical artifacts, but Kael’s not directly using them for he purpose of empowering himself - most of their stated beneficial stats come from the non-canon RPG, after all. More than anything they’re a memento, once being used to power the shield that protected Silvermoon. If they have any beneficial effects beyond that, we don’t really know.

(that being said, if you’ve got a source that counters what I said, please feel free to correct me )

That’s still years dude, five years as a mana addict without a proper fix? If magical artifacts were enough to simply help alleviate the symptoms then why did no one make mention of it? Why didn’t Kael’thas mention it despite having those three artifacts with him at all times?
kael’thas was desperate, yes, but he was also pragmatic. He did not immediately accept the Naga’s help until after he was sure there were no strings attached to it.
WoW did Kael’thas wrong, because in WC3 he is much more different.

Check what I said again. The timeline is up to five years, but realistically we’re talking anywhere between a few months to a year. But I get your point.

Don’t get me wrong, I agree completely that Kael’s character changed from TFT to TBC, and not for the better, but we have to go by the character he had, not the character he should have had.

Keep in mind at the height of the Blood Elves’ addiction withdrawals - and their desperation - the two greatest known repositories of magical artifacts (Silvermoon and Dalaran) had been destroyed. Rare and powerful magical artifacts were in short supply at the time Kael’Thas made his deal with Vashj to join forces - she was offering the Blood Elves hope for a cure in a way that the Eastern Kingdoms just wasn’t able to at the time. The Alliance was fighting the Scourge and the Legion over the crumbling ruins of Dalaran, and Kael had seen firsthand the ruins of Silvermoon and the way his people were suffering. He didn’t have the time, or the opportunity to really stop and think ‘hey, there must be an alternative solution to this rather than some Hail Mary over that rogue Night Elf we fought against that one time who had enormously powerful magics at his command.’

(Hell, I’d speculate that the primary reason Kael went to help out the ‘New Alliance’ in the ruins of Dalaran in the first place was because he was hoping to find some knowledge or power to help his people.)

Think about it. With Silvermoon and Dalaran destroyed, Kael’Thas didn’t really have:
-a means to study his people’s addiction,
-the time to actually investigate their ailment due to other commitments/pressing matters,
-the magical resources to attempt any alternatives,
-any real font of harnessed magical power to sate his people’s withdrawals with, and
-the opportunity to actually stop and take time to make more considered actions thanks to Garithos’ prejudices.

By the time Kael actually was able to stop for a minute and breathe, he was in Outland with Vashj, and Illidan was his only hope at that point. He didn’t really get a chance or opportunity to take the considered approach before then. By the time he could stop, take stop and think ‘maybe there’s another solution to this’, those options were shut off to him, and that Hail Mary option from Illidan was really his only course of action.

[Callistus-wyrmrest-accord]

So it’s all canon unless contradicted in more current iterations.

Basically. Which isn’t surprisisng, because the thing that changed by 2011 was Blood Elves.

In the pen and paper RPG, all of the Elves in Quel’thalas were dead. But TBC/Warcraft Chronicles/The Blood of the Highborne reverses that.

Suddenly all of the elves in Quel’thalas weren’t dead.

The RPG has Blood Elves, obviously, Warcraft III does. But it’s just the Blood Elves in Outland with Kael.

the playable Elves in the RPG were High Elves, and with the Silvermoon Remnant added to WoW and Quel’lithian Lodge up there next to Quel’thalas the direction they were headed is pretty obvious.

So the change in direction for TBC is really interesting.

But the Horde needed a pretty race. They say there were internal arguments about Nightborne, would probably have been interesting to see the discussions around Blood Elves being added to the Horde. I know Metzen never thought it fit.

[Callistus-wyrmrest-accord]

(Hell, I’d speculate that the primary reason Kael went to help out the ‘New Alliance’ in the ruins of Dalaran in the first place was because he was hoping to find some knowledge or power to help his people.)

Kind of a mixed bag. In theory, Kael took the remaining Sin’dorei’s best people and then went and joined up with the Alliance to fight the undead.

He just ends up serving under Garithos. They fight through Silverpine and kind of naturally end up at Dalaran.

I’d say your thinking makes sense, but they were kind of stuck doing whatever Garithos told them to do at the time.

Also, all the Elves of Quel’thalas were essentially suffering from post traumatic stress disorder and psychological and physiological withdraw. They were also living in scarcity environment, so all their decision making would be incredibly impaired.

[Markwachassa-dalaran]

A bit off topic (not a 100% though ), but this guy is doing an amazing work.

[Wallurian-wyrmrest-accord (Wallurian)]

Hey guys this is Wallurian and I just want to Apologize for my Meltdown last week where I posted every single person within the WoW Community that had ether harassed me or mocked me. But by doing that I also ruined and broke alot of the Allied Race Communities Trust like the San’layn and High Elf Community as well even hurt some folk’s feelings. So I’m sorry for acting like a raged jerkwad. Was going to say something more but I can’t swear on here so I’m just going to say jerkwad. Sorry for all the things I have done and also ruined and damaged the High Elf Support as well.

I highly Doubt I’ll ever be forgiven on here after all the things I have done over the last couple of months and 2 years and I also highly doubt I’ll ever be accepted back into the High Elf Community as well. So I just want to Apologize and I hope you guys do well with the High Elf Support. Pretty much my Time on here as well as the Support itself has ended after I got banned for 6 days but also banned off of the Community as well. Its probably for the best giving the fact I’m going to be busy this month and that Life itself is drugging me into finding a Work Career. So I probably won’t be spending time on the Forums anymore.

You guys have yourselves a Good Day and Continue the Support and I hope you guys are doing better.

[Callistus-wyrmrest-accord]

Buddy, it’s the internet. You don’t have to worry about being forgiven for anything*. (Within reason. Obviously creepers should worry about it. But that would be a weird situation on the forums.)

If people are super upset about something you said and aren’t going to forgive you for it then they’ve got people skills issues.

[Lorithyn-agamaggan (Lorithyn)]

I hope you’re doing well, Wallurian. From what I’ve been told the decision to remove you from the discord was done out of concern for your mental health. The Helf community does not hate you, in truth there are many people who’d like to see you back someday when you’re doing better

But for now it may be best for you to take a step back and breathe for a bit. Many of us here are passionate about seeing High Elves added to the game as an allied race, but it’s not something we want anyone to stress over to the point where it affects their everyday life

If your experiences here on the official forums and MMOC have had an extremely negative effect on your mental health I strongly advise abstaining from it and potentially seeking professional help, should you feel the need

Best of luck, friend. I look forward to the day when we’re both leveling our new Alliance High Elf toons

[Renotarshil-malganis (Renotarshil)]

I remember when I melted down.

Mostly because I’m sentient cheese.

[Fyrebusche-wyrmrest-accord]

@Markwachassa-dalaran

A bit off topic (not a 100% though ), but this guy is doing an amazing work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOjPizNe4RM

Tides of Darkness：Quel'Thalas Trailer （A WOW machinima）

this was recommended to me after that video ended. subtitled but still cool

[Lorithyn-agamaggan (Lorithyn)]

What kind of cheese? Pepper jack, I hope

[Lumineus-whisperwind (Lumineus)]

The term is “bigot” if you’re opposed to a thing out of irrational histrionics. Or you can be a “-phobe” if you prefer. That’s what you get for invoking PC BS.

[Renotarshil-malganis (Renotarshil)]

Being a native resident of Texas, I am more inclined to align myself with the Mexican 4-Cheese Blend.

[Galilee-barthilas]

Stop oppressing me

[Lumineus-whisperwind (Lumineus)]

I’m just enjoying you all falling over yourselves trying to excuse the fact that you’ve literally been calling us brownshirts for two years with your lazily-invented epithet.

[Galilee-barthilas]

Help, help, I’m being repressed!