Hidden Nerf to Taurens in The Burning Crusade [PvP/Arena]

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
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Hello there!

As a TBC Veteran, TBC R1, Retail Multi-R1, and Beta Tester… I feel compelled to give my feedback and honest opinion on this topic. Though I may be biased since I did roll Tauren Warrior 2 years ago in Classic for the sole reason of having a larger hitbox, I will do my best to not be dogmatic in this post.

Per the title, ~ Taurens have been exponentially nerfed in TBC [Arena/PvP].

Without any discussion or feedback from players testing the Beta… the devs normalized Tauren hitbox to be the same as every other Races ONLY in arena.

For me personally, and many other Tauren Warrior’s that I’ve talked to, this change is absolutely devastating. I would go out on a limb and say that a majority, if not all, Tauren Warriors (that PvP) when deciding their race TWO years ago in Classic WoW… went the race specifically for the reason that they’d be slightly* more useful in Arena come The Burning Crusade because of their larger hitbox.

It is understandable that Tauren vs Tauren range is VERY large… However that only happens in nuanced situations where it is either a Tauren Warrior vs another Tauren Warrior or a Tauren Warrior chasing a Tauren Druid, with the Druid not being in animal form. Sure the advantage is given to the Warrior in that situation… but as soon as the Druid goes Bear / Travel (which they usually are when running around the pillar or trying to gain distance) the range is not nearly as large.

While this is certainly a significant nerf to Tauren Warriors… what is more troublesome is the fact that the original Hitbox remains unchanged in World PvP, Instances, Duels, and Battlegrounds. This creates unreproducible mechanics when trying to practice PvP outside of arena… inconsistency of game mechanics, so to speak. You are essentially playing one race inside of Arena and a different one in every scenario outside of Arena. Additionally, other races hitboxes have not been adjusted where there are nuanced issues; Gnome LoS’ing when in the pit of Blade’s Edge Arena, Male/Female Undead/Gnome issues when getting up/down the tomb in Ruins of Lordareon, etc.

The change itself, if speaking in the realm of hypothetical nerfs, would be similar to players rolling Human in TBC for the sole purpose of having Every Man For Himself in WotLK and then it being nerfed. Going Orc for Stun Resist and then having it nerfed. Or players going any race that might have “advantage” at a later point in expansions. I’d understand these changes in later expansions, when a player is able to Race Change… or when leveling becomes easier… But for many players, myself included, we’ve spent the past 2 years leveling, gearing, and becoming attached to our specific race… per Classic tradition…

The meta race in PvP on Horde has always been Orc for additional stun resist and Blood Fury. However, the double-edged sword and “hidden” bonus of having a larger hitbox, allowing you to hit casters / ranged from further away when being kited… and also in-turn being hit from further away by melee, made Taurens appealing to players that had to decide between the two races for PvP. In my honest opinion, IF the change WERE to be reverted, I would still argue that Orc would remain the dominant choice for Horde Warriors due to Stun Resist / Rogue Teams, Blood Fury being able to drop 5 stack wound poison, and the sheer AP bonus from the on-use ability as well.

I think this change to a rather “static” element of TBC is not wise… especially in the “hidden nerf” fashion it was done, before talking to the community / beta testers.

In my opinion, if hitting other Taurens through the pillar is the issue, then the pillars mechanics need to be adjusted for that specific situation… without nerfing the entire hitbox of the Race. If the change is NOT revoked… I am in firm belief that the option for race change needs to be given to Taurens.

Edit:
After reading a bunch of the responses I’m a bit taken back… Some I feel are deciding to read between the lines… and others I can’t help but feel are attacking the post because of who I am // who posted it.

Let me make something clear; If this change is NOT reverted I am OK with that. I just think there needs to be consistency, i.e. nerf it both in and out of Arena.

But some of these comments “OMG IT WAS SO BROKEN IT NEEDED TO BE FIXXED!!!” Who are we kidding here? Do you guys even know how much stuff is broken in Classic / TBC but will remain?

I already have a level 60 Gnome Warrior ready to go for TBC Arena… I’m making this post for other Tauren Warriors / Hunters as well. It’s not the end of the world… but something that SHOULD be discussed.

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Hidden Nerfs / Changes are always fun to discover, especially when you rolled the Race for that one Reason that has been changed >.< .

Cmon Blizz. :<

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I support the return to normal hitboxes. Blizzard should change this back to the preferred way.

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Good.

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Stealth nerfs are good for no one.

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I stop reading after this… =P

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/shrug

Stealth nerf/buff is just the angry player name for “change I didn’t get enough warning about to take to the forums and complain.” It isn’t like there was tons of feedback about Skull Flame Shield or Demon Forged Breastplate, and yet it was changed. The game is always in flux, people need to be able to handle that.

In this case, we’re talking about normalizing hit box sizes in Arenas only so that Tauren aren’t hitting people through the pillars and other shenanigans. In this case I’m 100% fine with them adjusting TBC Arena to be similar to later Arena seasons.

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Arena specific nerfs are very strange. Why should a race/class feel differently everywhere else in the world, but different in only arena?

Also the melee leeway thing has been there since before Classic released, it was discovered in beta - went unchanged up until now… People chose their race of their character on this mechanic years ago, why nerf them now?

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I’m not sure comparing an item that can be acquired in a day or two should be compared to somebody committing years to leveling / gearing a character and then it being changed.

Tauren hitbox was changed in WotLK, not “in later seasons of TBC Arena”

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Whether a day or 10 years, changes come with or without warning, and in this case it is a good one.

Yes, I didn’t say otherwise. We already received changes inconsistent with TBC Arena that made the gear acquisition, team member requirements, point requirements, etc all more like later Arena seasons. Seasons don’t reset between expansions, same thing as tier, the count just keeps growing. So I’m not at all surprised by the existence of future (TBC or otherwise) season changes being applied to TBC Classic.

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Much rather see attacking through pillars fixed if that’s the issue we’re trying to solve. Seems weird to only “fix” Tauren hitboxes while leaving everyone else the same. Don’t think this is a game-breaking issue that had to be nerfed and something a lot of Taurens specifically rolled for.

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Imagine being so washed up that you actually are trying to argue for a mechanic that allows you to smack people THROUGH pillars.

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Autoattacks in melee range land if you’re actively targeting an attackable entity, you’re facing the entity, and you’re within your hitbox range. That’s it. That’s why people and NPCs alike can smack you on the other side of walls and through all manner of physical obstacles.

Fixing this mechanic specifically while maintaining the huge hitbox would actually be insanely non-trivial and would invariably change how everything involving melee plays out. Imagine how often bosses and mobs would evade out simply because you dropped LoS on them.

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Sigh… they really do need to address this, a lot of people rolled tauren warrior for the hitbox in vanilla. I really hope they fix this on beta.

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Well said and agreed

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Just goes to show how toxic the forums can be lol. jfc

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I can’t say that this is a bad change for a competitive PvP game, but obviously it sucks if you went Tauren specifically for this leeway-pillar ignore auto attack mechanic.

Months and months ago I was advocating for hitbox normalization and all racials being removed from arena though, as having game-breaking abilities tied to your race is absolutely absurd.

I’m now going to play my Dwarf Hunter in TBC rather than my Night Elf, even when I think Night Elves aesthetic and animations are infinitely better than that of Dwarves, just to be able to go “OH NO IM DEAD TO ROGUE j/k click oh ur Wound Poisons/Crippling is off haha noob” with Stoneform.

Racials were stupid in Classic (except for Shadowmeld ganking people in Phase 2 of course), they’re stupid in Retail, and they’ll be stupid in TBC. If a spec is truely lacking in an area it shouldn’t be up to Racially-tied powers to bring them up to par.

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All I needed to read to know that you are, in fact, a real Blizzard employee

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First off, big fan Sony. Enjoy the workout streams from time to time.

Second, I disagree with you here. You went Tauren because of the monster hitbox that never should’ve been allowed in the first place. Taurens whacking you through pillars for 2k white crits in arena is absolutely insane. Pillars are the lifeblood of Rdruid and Rshaman in TBC and having Tauren hitting you for white crits of 25% of your health through stone LoS is infuriating. I’ve seen Hamstrings go off through pillars too. You do mention this:

But we both know that it would be too much work for Blizzard to try to fix mapping as opposed to just nerfing the Tauren hit box.

I definitely sympathize with the folks that went Tauren purely so they could screw people out of points in an expansion over a year away but ‘them the breaks’, so to speak. I also distinctly recall Tauren hitboxes allowing Tauren warriors to more effectively tank Brutallus as well. I remember world-first guilds have their tanks reroll Tauren specifically for the Brutallus fight. I wonder if Blizzard will end up addressing that too.

TL:DR I would also rather have them fix pillars than fix Taurens but we both know which of those two is more likely to occur.

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Go look that word up in the dictionary.

I would suggest grief counseling.

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