Except you can, because the horde player starts neutral with the forsaken…it’s made clear it’s an alliance of convenience rather than one of real merit. And forsaken have almost zero impact.on any questing on Kalimdor.
Also trying to claim that Garrosh and his tenure as warchief is thralls horde is laughable. Thrall isn’t there…thus not warchief, thus not his horde.
If you look at Garrosh’s character arc, it’s.one of the best ever written entirely seen in WoW. It’s the fall of a hero, both due to circumstances around him and his own personality. He was fun to hate for both sides, and one of the few characters to not be receive a personality assassination with the changing if the writing team.
An orc thrust into leadership because he was a hero, who told Thrall he wasn’t ready to lead, then abandoned/challenged by the people who would be his allies, and watching his people suffer for things he literally had no conceivable notion of because he stayed in Outlands.
Even if I disliked the fact that he literally undid everything WC3 built up, he was still fun to hate…and is part of one of the better xpacs (pvpwise) in WoW’s history.
Why is this a problem? It’s the foundation of how the Horde was designed in lore.
Bruh. You claimed Racist Alliance. For what? A typical ignorant Horde player points to Garithos who isn’t part of “WoW’s Alliance” either.
Try again.
Remove the Stonetalon arc because it was decanonized by Blizzard.
And then tell me “best ever written”. It’s not the fall of a hero. It’s the transformation of a brat into a bigger brat.
So basically he became a racist because Mr.Abandoned By A Few Allies got triggered and kicked out all other races because “Orc Supremacy”.
EZ Racist Garrosh. Man even Garithos was better. He only hated Blood Elves because they conveniently did not send aid when the Alliance invoked the terms of the treaty asking for aid when the Trolls and orcs murdered Garithos’ family and his village.
And you completely ignore that Thralls Horde isn’t racist. Garrosh is a new era. His reign starts in Cata to where I specifically point out WC3 to WotLK is Thrall’s Horde.
Welcome to the fantasy genre… This is like complaining that there are too many aliens in sci fi movies… Like really, what do people expect? If you don’t like it, don’t play it.
The narrative pushes racism. You are killing trolls and orcs not because they are horde, but because they are trolls and orcs.
That is not the case in the Horde narrative, who are actively being disrupted by alliance friendly (meaning you can’t kill them on an alliance character) npcs
Dwarves are digging up.and disrupting burial grounds in Mulgore. Kul Tirans were trying to set up in Durotar.
Meanwhile there is no Horde (orcs, trolls, tauren) in Alliance zones until level 20s.
Im not referring to a specific character being racist. The alliance narrative was set up in a way to whitewash things and just make you go troll/orc bad.
The horde narrative was structured to feel like an underdog fighting to survive.
Where is this? Prove it. Trolls and Orcs genocided everyone in Azeroth.
The same can be said for Horde characters: Forsaken experimenting on Humans, Orcs killing Redridge citizens.
Don’t bring up these weirdo arguments of “Not till lvl 20”. Do you want to discuss lore or the game?
Then you have no proof that the Alliance is racist other than Garithos who was not part of the WoW alliance while I have 100% proof that Garrosh was racist in WoW.
So going by your logic, the racist Horde has been genociding people (Humans and Night Elves) and asking forgiveness every single time.
The horde (orcs trolls tauren) want to be left alone. They’ve literally gone to another continent to do that.
Night elf tensions started before they were alliance…and honestly night elves become alliance is its own conversation, much to the detriment of their entire racial identity.
Also, the night elves started genociding the orcs first. Don’t forget who struck the first blow. Orcs cut down trees…night elves slaughter orcs and open a can of worms they weren’t ready for because orcs aren’t pushovers.
The devs have even stated that vanilla/classic was written this way…to provide alliance a more standard fantasy experience (us good, them bad) vs. the underdog feeling of the Horde leveling.
Again, you are trying to find examples of in game world. The storytelling narrative is what’s racist…specifically to whitewash the experience of alliance players into good vs. bad.
Trolls in dun morogh. Not horde.
Dragonmaw in wetlands. Not Horde at the time.
Orcs in redridge. Still not horde at the time.
Earliest horde (orc, trolls, tauren) as a human, dwarf, or gnome I think is arathi highlands which is 30s. Nelves get warsong early 20s. Forsaken, which the horde side even makes a point of stating aren’t really the same as orcs, tauren, trolls, are peppered in certain places earlier.
The Night Elves refused to let the Orcs push into Ashenvale and claim their forests so the Orcs went with the “We’re taking it do what you want” and this led them to become enemies.
Nope. I’m finding examples in the in-game lore where there is proof of Horde being outright evil and racist. Don’t try to whitewash like the Horde is some goodie two shoes.
I love how you find these examples and say “Not Horde” and then bring up Dwarves in the Barrens and say “THEY ARE ALLIANCE”.
Yeah you’re a typical Horde player who follows the narrative of praising people like Garrosh and Sylvanas “FOR THE HORDE” and then when Blizzard brings down the villain bat you suddenly switch over to:
The night elves never approached the orcs prior to attacking. They asked for guidance and Cenarius felt the demonic taint and said they were demons and to destroy them.
There was not attempt at diplomacy on either side…which given the cenarion circle and tauren/night elf relationship seems like a big failing of the writing team…but then we’d have no warsong gulch which is the GOAT so I’m okay with this.
I’m not. The horde literally leave the continent. Before WC3, the darkspear and tauren had zero interaction with alliance (sans night elves cenarion circle nonsense again). The first contact darkspear have with alliance is Daelin. Are you confusing the darkspear island trolls for the forest trolls from WC2? Because if so, that’s exactly the racist narrative doing it’s work.
Tauren also had zero interaction…their first being the bael’dun dwarves invading Mulgore and digging up burial grounds and disrupting the elements.
None of this whitewashes what the orcs did. But again, the orcs left to a entirely different continent led by Thrall. They were no longer fighting with the alliance (humans, dwarves, gnomes).
Because it’s true. Play classic. I can bring a horde character to any of those zones and kill the dragonmaw, frostmane, and black rock.
I can’t kill the kul Tirans or dwarves on an alliance character because they are friendly npcs to alliance.
First you started with “Racist Alliance” and when I asked you to back that up without going into pre-WoW narratives, you started talking about in-game mechanics like “lvl 20” and tried to tie that in to lore.
You still continued doing it, stating stuff like “you can’t kill NPCs in game as Alliance” or something.
You are mixing game mechanics with lore and attempting to get your point across. I’ve tried so much to tell you to argue lore as only lore but you refuse to get out of that mess.
There’s no way I’ll be able to convince you that you’re wrong for mixing these gameplay elements with lore.
I 100% disagree with what you said. We’ll agree to disagree. I know a lost cause when I see one.
Also a simple search history shows that I hate what both Garrosh and Sylvannas have done to the horde.
I even stated it here. I can like Garrosh as a character and hate that he undid all good horde development from WC3. Garrosh was fun to hate. He was great development for Lor’themar and Vol’jin and overall dethroning him was a fun storyline…even if it came at the cost of Thrall’d horde ideal being trampled on.
I have never liked Sylvannas, and am tired by the very predictable narrative we’ve been given…where she will get a redemption of sorts, while.leaving night elf.players unfulfilled…and once again trampling on the aspects of WC3 horde that I enjoyed.
Man, how do you think they write the game? They write it with a specific experience in mind. This is separate from the actual game lore.
The reason the Horde has alliance friendly npcs in their starting zones is so they feel oppressed.
The reason humans, gnomes and dwarves don’t face horde npcs is to push that thrall took the orcs to Kalimdor. There are no darkspear or tauren on Eastern Kingdoms.
Alliance is meant to feel heroic…so they are put against traditional monstrous races, with little concern for if they are Horde or not. Monsters bad = alliance player feels good.
The fact that you are trying to take the meta experience of designing how the game feels and the narrative structure with actual in game lore shows that you either don’t understand what I am trying to say because I have explained it poorly…or can’t because you aren’t thinking about it in the same manner.
Example:. The narrative of Garithos is you arent supposes to like him, and made to feel like he is oppressive and a jerk…and that you want to betray him.
The lore to make this happen is he is racist and essentially sets himself up as a racist warlord that spits in the face of any previously shown type of alliance leadership.
These are not Horde Orcs. The blackrock clan in redridge is not part of Thrall’s Horde — not in Vanilla, and not post-Cata revamp.
Which is exactly how the alliance narrative pushes racism. You don’t even realize they aren’t part of the faction.
From Wowpedia
The humans of Stormwind remained dominant in the unblemished southern ranges. Now a much smaller region, the Redridge Mountains were eventually conquered by the Orcish Horde in the First War,[1] in which the southern kingdom was forced into exile. The humans eventually returned triumphant and began rebuilding their former holdings. Yet the orcs of the Blackrock and Black Tooth Grin clans would also return, this new “Dark Horde” plaguing the town of Lakeshire from their former stronghold of Blackrock Mountain.
The Dark Horde ,[3][4] also referred to as the “true Horde”,[5] is a renegade group of orcs, trolls, ogres, and goblins who dwell in Blackrock Spire and consist largely of the remnants of the Blackrock clan and Dragonmaw clan. They were marshaled by Nefarian and ruled by the self-styled Warchief Rend Blackhand. Unlike the orcs of Thrall’s Horde, they remained steadfast to the ideals of the old Horde and embraced the demonic bloodlust.[6]
