Typically, I have a fairly specific personal way to determine what is OP/overtuned. And it’s when a class is hard to or can’t be punished when they give up logical positioning for maximizing DPS.
As of right now, a DH can dive behind a pillar out of their teammates LOS and hardly be punished by the virtue of their damage, cc, passive tank talents and strong defensive cooldowns. Post rework ret was capable of similar things but they traded some personal offensive capabilities for absurd amounts of team utility. Both were not good for the game. Both caused a major fracture in the player base.
No class should able to play that recklessly without very little risk to themselves. Diving to finish a game should pose a significant risk in the high stakes decision making that arena used to have, and no longer possess. Blizzard continues to make classes that are successful from merely existing and doing a a PvE rotation. It’s a sad state of affairs. Something needs to give.
16 games played, 12 dhs, 10 locks. Only 75% rep! (Unless you also played with a DH, then it’s even higher!)
Thanks! Idk about smart, but i do like numbers.
Yes and. 10.0.7 Ret paladin is the most significant example ever in the entire history of the game. Current dh is a not-so-close second.
There have been some absurdly broken healer and healer traits; pack spirit rsham, rdruid in the situation you mentioned, s3 hpriest slands and the strongest historically with like 85-87.5% rep was bfa s4 hpal. But are they elevating people hundreds of rating?
No, because what usually makes a class truly broken is what Jim mentions:
He’s absolutely right.
No matter how strong something is offensively, if it can’t die under reasonable conditions, THAT is when it becomes OP.
Fdk is arguably one of if not the strongest offensive setup classes in the game and can easily win a game through defensive cds and trinkets when paired with almost any class that has any kind of burst.
No one complains about that nearly as much because it can die.
Moonkin was (in my opinion) the strongest spec in the game sans the obviously broken ret paladin at the end of S1, but it still had the second lowest caster playrate out of any spec (behind arcane mage) because if you got kicked on clone you traded a major healer CD or you died.
You never see healers automatically develop massive CR leads because they still have to make active choices and decisionmaking can lead to errors which can be exploited.
When a class is overtuned with passive tankiness, there isn’t that thought or choice; it’s safe to always press W and thats always the correct play. Its why dh/outlaw/warlock are so problematic for the game right now.
I’ve played DH all xpac. There are times when they’ve been pretty bad this xpac so I know exactly how that feels. Yes they are strong right now… very strong… not denying that. But read my post. I’m saying people’s hate towards them hasn’t been fair compared to some other very strong specs that get zero attention. It’s just become the popular thing to complain about is my point. Rdruid has had insane representation this season too but everyone is whining about DH. I’m actually looking forward to making a ww alt soon, they seem completely busted but I won’t have to read everyone complaining about it getting played lol.
Sometimes that is true for some specs. This is not one of those times.
First of all, people ARE complaining about rdruid and rsham. Second. Rdruid made up 30% of all matches played this week.
Definitely an overrepresentation given that there are 6 healing classes. At least 1 Dh, however, has been in 62.4% of matches played. That’s an OBSCENE overrepresentation.
Wait so you are upset because people are “legitimately” reading to a spec and are more concerned about “people” whining than caring for the good of the game? You know that a lot of good folks are going to voice their opinions (Sounds better than whine, which comes off as you being a bit salty at people calling out your DH.) about ANY class that has a current DH vibe to it right?
First off, “upset” isn’t even close to the right word. I would better describe it as “mystified”.
Basically, everyone is posting about the class being strong. So everyone re-rolls it. So it is then absurdly high in representation. That doesn’t actually mean the class is broken. It just means it is strong and everyone is playing it. I do think DH is very strong but solely citing representation metrics IS inherently flawed. It’s like saying more people drown from eating ice cream - correlation is not causation.
A better/more robust way to look at a class being OP are actual gameplay metrics such as burst dps, damage mitigation, CC etc. DH does have a strong profile of burst/survive-ability but the metrics available to show these types of stats are crap. All we have are wow arena logs and it’s not very good. Blizzard holds the keys to this stuff.
My main point is that DH is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. The more people talk about it the more people play it which then fuels the same metrics everyone uses to judge class balance. This is absurdly flawed and nobody seems to recognize it. I know I’m right because it’s basic statistics but everyone will flame anyway. Oh well.
I forgot about ineffable truth hpal haha, I had just put mine down after healing to 2100 for the first time in season 3 lol.
Good explanation for the rest of it though. And I guess with a healer being able to top with a single button doesn’t have as many game shaking issues as a DPS who’s out of position getting slammed and is fine due to personal passive tankiness since their assault begins anew with minimal help from the healer.
Sure - prove how it’s broken with facts and data. My point is there aren’t intelligent discussions on this. Only links to spec representation which is a correlation. Again, everyone glossing over the points that require actual data. Further proving my point.
I know DH is very strong. I think the perception is way overblown due to spec representation data which is inherently flawed. But again I’m preaching to people who don’t seem to understand this and simply reply - “DH broken” lol
This is what you are doing pard. Rep statistics aren’t the end all be all but they aren’t meaningless. Especially when something is this much of an outlier. Anything other than that data is inherently subjective based on a collection of people’s shared experience in a video game. You’re not asking for facts and data, they have been provided to you. You’re a sea lion.
Yeah dude nobody is going to do an analysis on burst ttk, effective health taking into account all damage reductions, and any other fried data points you are asking for. It’s clear from experience the spec is OP and the rep % aligns with that experience. Nothing more is needed and nothing more will be provided. Nobody needed double blinded crossover studies to figure out Ret was OP after the rework and nobody needs that now.
That’s perfect way to describe this type of behaviour lol.
I love the part where he gaslights everyone by projecting that the argument is being “bolstered” only by number of people playing versus actually looking at the reality/facts on the ground.
DH is a problem let’s not complicate the issue with nonsense
Our options were splay or dh dk rsham. So we decided if you can’t beat them join them. And altho there’s a lot of warlocks in that reflex pic, the warlocks CAN DIE.
You got your first 2200, 2400, and glad achieves this month while playing since atleast sl s1 (a far more inflated season). Is that sufficient evidence?
He has earned those through skilled glimpses. And skilled blade dances. And skilled annihilation spam. I bet you he didn’t even triple dr stun the healer one time when he got an outlaw on his team and still accidently won the game. Or how he probably didn’t just run at the boomy and make them sit bear form all game because they can’t do anything meaningful to them because they aren’t a warlock.
